Paul Nynas (PN): Vicar

Donna Hanna (DH): Assistant Music Minister

Stephanie Burke (SB): Amy’s part time Christian Ed assistant, former Youth Director here

Scott MacLeod (SM): spouse, teaches Sunday school

Jan MacLeod (JM): Administrator for Christian Foundations and Confirmation

Kevin Daniels (KD): spouse, Sunday schoolteacher, softball fan

Stacie Loizeaux (SL): Amy’s assistant, runs Alpha

Dave Loizeaux (DL): spouse, teaches Sunday school and Alpha

Natalya Legvold (NL): Youth Director

We gathered around the enormous round table in the great room of the staff house.
Dawn led, Amy took notes – Hal and Greg went to the youth house.

FF:       What drew you to the church?

DL: Unchurched background – when I was in high school in the south everyone was in church except me. I got involved here ‘cause the kids got involved, as it developed my faith grew.

NL: Senior pastor was my youth pastor in Florida – he recruited me.

FF:       Why’d you come?

NL: I was impressed and overwhelmed by the church, but I felt called here. Left family and home church to be here

PN: Placed here. My internship got cancelled and this came in late – dynamic ministry with lots of opportunities that’s why I came.

SB: I came here first as a Youth Director, synodical Youth Ministry intern, Mark was my Youth Director as a kid, senior pastor at the time had big family connections with my family. Mark called and said there’s an opening here. I left to birth some offspring, left town and then came back. This church is in my blood – there’s too much going on – lot of spirit work going on.

FF:       Can you say more about spirit work?

SB: What we’re about is what we’re supposed to be about. The spirit of God is what’s directing the way we are moving. God is directing, no hidden agendas, we are being blown by the spirit.

JM: Job transfer brought us to Charlotte. We both grew up churched and thought we’d never find a spot. Visited lots of churches – came here and felt at home immediately. It was a feeling for me –came from a contemporary setting

SM: It was almost like they knew you already. Pastor Dave met us one week and knew us the next. Jan was pegged 6 wks after we were here and got Amy working on her to get her involved. It’s uncanny the way they are able to get you involved – it’s impressive.

KD: Came visiting, joined. Then Pastor Dave invited Amy to start working and we just grew from there – as the family ministry program has grown so has our involvement here, music – preaching, all really great.

SL: When we moved here a bunch of people were telling us about it and bugging us to come. We came and felt at home – even though it was in a time of turmoil and change – the 2^nd campus was opening etc. In the midst of that it felt really stable- like “chaos is ok here” normal, constant. Amy asked me to help out when Jan wasn’t available for an event, and my involvement just increased from there

FF:       What’s great for men here?

SM: I’m never home during the week to take advantage of the men’s ministry.

KD: There are a lot of things – I haven’t done the Monday night thing. I have coached basketball – other programs like Habitat for Humanity, service projects, flood relief after the hurricane. Lots of service events.

DL: Not active in the men’s ministry, enjoy the education opportunities on Wednesdays and Sundays. Did systematic theology class with Donna. I really enjoyed that.

PN: I did the men’s ministry. It had died off and is now rejuvenated. Small groups, monthly large groups, trips, etc. Scott, Jeff and I and the staff try to raise the bar with everybody so we looked at men and tried to find a way to do that since they are less often involved in church stuff.

FF:       What’s a thing that’s just so great here – high points during the year?

DL: It’s not just a job to the staff.

SB & SL: “It’s an adventure!”

JM: I agree with that – we love what we do and we have fun doing it. It’s our passion its hard work and frustration but a lot of joy.

PN: We laugh a lot all day, everyday.

SL: The staff truly love each other. My favorite thing – Tenebrae service – awesome. And rally day.

NL: I thought you’d say Rally Day!

DH: Christmas service is really done well.

SM: I think you do every Sunday well.

DH: Thanks – and Holy week is amazing. You don’t want to miss anything. Real intentional continuity there – prayer vigil etc.

PN: Worship, traditional and contemporary. Contemporary is highest quality of any I’ve ever seen and theological quality is the best I’ve seen.

JM: The rite of Confirmation service is a biggie. My daughter was confirmed with 38 other kids and I feel like they’re all mine. I get to know the kids and their families. They write and participate in their own service. Really cool.

NL: Hard to pick something

SB: I love the spirit here – “there’s rarely a Sunday I don’t feel like dancing out to my car” – dancing drama, etc. we have way too much fun – it is a privilege.

KD: Works so well considering our tight space, no parking, the landlocked conditions, moving the office, having the youth house, acquiring property, looking at what we’re trying to do for the growth we’ve gone through.  It’s amazing that we’ve stuck together and survived.

PN: We all have freedom to make mistakes and learn from them. Freedom to make mistakes and move on. Look back and laugh.

SM: “The congregation expects it.”

DL: Look at the McAlpine thing: open a second campus, close it. Worship attendance goes up.

DH: For example, we switch easily to new liturgy because they expect it, they learn things quickly. Remarkable response and enthusiasm. During the interim before Scott came we took in new members – a friend was amazed that we could do that without a senior pastor. I said, “When it’s Sunday we have church.”

KD: We continued to grow with the interim pastor. Didn’t slow down a bit. Gives credit to the rest of the programs and the other staff who were running the place.

FF:       We’ve heard so much about lay empowerment.  How does that happen?

Group: Preached from the pulpit – Scott encouraged and empowered it

DH: Church has a history of that traced to David – very forward-looking, visionary.

FF:       It sounds like he was skilled enough that it didn’t end with him.

DH: He could pinpoint people and what they’d be good at and get them involved.

SB: We’re on the track we’re on because of David.

PN: Senior pastors keep the vision in front of the congregation constantly. “This church exists for the sole purpose of the person who is not here.”

KD: That was the reason for McAlpine and why it merged back in here.

PN: The senior high youth do an exceptional job of inviting others. They sit together and enjoy a worship service. They are inviting their unchurched friends to church.

DL: That’s Natalya. They hang out at the youth house on Friday night.

DH: Not long ago our kids were going elsewhere, now kids are coming here.

SL: Now all the kids come up to communion together. It’s so cool!

DH: The kids come up and jam with us after the service

NL: They’re involved in other things that just youth group. Two kids in Spirit Song – they run sound board, teach elementary Sunday School, one on council.

PN: They are a part of what we do at this church.

SL: They expect to be part of this church.

SB: The kids lead us in evangelism.

NL: They bring kids not just because its fun but because they say it’s someone that needs to be here.

PN: They set the example for their parents.

FF:       We have been hearing a lot about raising the bar – is that talked about or assumed?

SL: We talk about it and it’s assumed. We are about being the best we can.

DH: David and Mark talk about it a lot – its infectious.

FF:       The Holy Spirit thing – heard it more here than any other Lutheran church.

Group: What do other churches talk about??

FF:       Jesus. They’re afraid of the Holy Spirit.

DH: We’re not afraid of that and I think that makes people afraid of us, and that’s a shame. We’re not throwing it in anyone’s faces. For some who were raised Lutheran it’s a hard thing. I couldn’t always stand up in a restaurant and pray [Laughter because she prayed for dinner for all of us at the restaurant before we ate that evening]. Scott and Mark make it easy.

SL: You can see the Holy Spirit moving on people’s faces on Sunday morning – like liturgical dancing – it’s amazing

KD: I think the people who do the traditional service feel the same way – are just as happy. It’s well done.

PN: The pastors are always saying, “Let’s keep traditional and do it well.” The Holy Spirit thing – I hear in prayers here “Spirit be our guide, lead us” we ask. It seems funny but it’s just that simple.

FF:       What’s the magic that makes this work?

DL: It’s the community. Like with Terry – everyone rallies around [This person was in a car accident and the church has been taking care of the family while he recovers].

DH: Do you feel like you really live in a city? I think this church doesn’t have a large city feel.

KD: Because the majority of the membership lives out here. We were members of a downtown church when people drove in from all over. Out here it is suburban.

SB: Is it also the fact that we have 4 separate worship services?

DL: We don’t segment – we do Wednesdays together

DH: Our 930 service has more in attendance than most churches have members and yet it so comfortable and so good.

SL: During the passing the peace you don’t have time to say it to all the people you want to say it to

DH: All the benefits of a large church and few of the real problems – except parking. Can’t put my finger on why that is.

KD: So many programs get different people involved, a lot brings all of us together despite the separate worship services

PN: Church is where your friends are. It’s different here than in Minnesota because we are the minority, brings the community together. I kind of like that.

DL: One of the things that impressed me when we came is that people who knew us made us feel welcome right away.

JM: We make an intentional effort to plug people in.

SM: So they don’t feel like they’re getting gobbled up.

SL: That’s why our staff needs to be big – every one knows a different group

DH: With a large staff it would be easy to be fragmented, but we are drawn together with staff meeting.

KD: That’s unusual. Like you guys go out to lunch together on Tuesdays.  Some churches seems like staff don’t like to hang out together

DH: Other churches can’t understand what we do

SM: What impresses me is that if you look at the facility you’d think maybe 300, but we had almost 1100 in worship last weekend. It’s amazing!

FF:       Final comments?

DH: Go ‘heels! [The UNC Tar Heels were playing starting at 10 that night]

SB: I have to make myself create social circles outside.

JM: The 4 of us share an office – we are very different, but compliment each other and work as a really tight team.

SL: That’s evidence of the Holy Spirit at work.

JM: It’s just really cool – that goes for the whole staff.

(Amy prayed to close.)

Quotables/Observations:

• FF: We've heard so much about lay empowerment how does that happen? Group: - Preached from the pulpit - Scott encouraged and empowerd it.      
  
  
• “The spirit of God is what’s directing the way we are moving. God is directing no hidden agendas, we are being blown by the spirit.”
  
  
• SM: It’s uncanny the way they are able to get you involved – it’s impressive.
  
  
• SL: We came and felt at home – even though it was in a time of turmoil and change 2^nd campus was opening etc. In the midst of that it felt really stable- like “chaos is ok here” normal, constant.
  
  
• DL: “It’s not just a job to the staff.” SB & SL:  “its an adventure!” JM: I agree with that – we love what we do and we have fun doing it. It’s our passion; it’s hard work and frustration but a lot of joy.
  
  
• PN: Contemporary [worship] is highest quality of any I’ve ever seen and theological quality is the best I’ve seen.
  
  
• SB: I love the spirit here – “there’s rarely a Sunday I don’t feel like dancing out to my car.”
  
  
• PN: We all have freedom to make mistakes and learn from them. Freedom to make mistakes and move on. Look back and laugh
  
  
• KD: We continued to grow with the interim pastor. Didn’t slow down a bit. Gives credit to the rest of the programs and the other staff who were running the place.
  
  
• PN: Senior pastors keep the vision in front of the congregation constantly. “This church exists for the sole purpose of the person who is not here.”
  
  
• SB: The kids lead us in evangelism. NL: They bring kids not just because its fun but because they say its someone that needs to be here
  
  
• SL: You can see the Holy Spirit moving on people’s faces on Sunday morning
  
  
• SL: During the passing the peace you don’t have time to say it to all the people you want to say it to.

Back to Table of Contents

Observations from Visit to "Youth House"

Friday, 16 March 2001, 9.30 – 10.30 pm.

Greg and Hal

Greg and Hal were invited to observe the Friday night youth event called “Youth House.”  The house has been set-up as a “youth-friendly” place, with facilities including a kitchen area and lounge area, round coffee tables, a pool table, arcade games, a large screen TV, lounge chairs and a stereo system.  The Friday night format is unstructured, with the feel of a “drop-in” center.  We observed the presence of adult volunteers and the presence of both middle and senior high youth.  A number of parents “came by” while we were there and their presence seemed to be accepted as normal by the youth.  The youth themselves appeared to accept the variety of ages present.

Hal and Greg had opportunity to “chat” with a number of youth and adults.  One of the young persons, AD, an 8^th grader, shared of his involvement with a ministry to the homeless, an involvement that began through the confirmation ministry.  AD’s role is setting up the materials associated with this once-a-week program and he clearly values his involvement, and his involvement is also valued by the other (adult) volunteers associated with the program.  Two senior high girls spoke with enthusiasm of their involvement with ‘The Experience’, the youth-led musical production group, and of how important it had been to them in their overall experience of the church.  While Greg was in conversation with them, Amy Daniels, the Director of Family Ministries, took the opportunity to encourage they high school girls to ‘sign up’ as leaders for the children’s summer camping ministry.  Their response indicated that they had confidence in their ability to serve in a meaningful leadership role in the church.

Both Hal and Greg had opportunity to speak informally with the parents at the house.  They spoke very highly of Amy Daniel’s leadership and attributed most of the success of the youth and family ministry to her clear and helpful leadership.  Amy knew all of the youth by name and introduced us to a young man whose parents were not members of the church.  This young man reported that he was involved in Boys Scouts that met in the church building, and on his own initiative has chosen to come to church and other youth events.  The youth seemed comfortable with the presence of the adults in the house.

Back to Table of Contents

Brainstorm Team - Jeanne, Barbara, Dan, (and Tom, oft mentioned, not present)

3/17 over breakfast at Phil’s Deli J

Hal, Greg, Amy, Dawn (Hal led, Amy took notes)

FF: Tell us a little bit about your story and how you got involved at Christ Lutheran

J: I grew up in MI, LCMS – wanted to be an LCMS teacher, but my husband went to Seminex so that wasn’t possible. I was a 5^th grade school teacher, been at Christ Lutheran since 1982. started mom’s morning out, daycare, taught SS – now I want to sit around, drink coffee and talk. I have 3 kids – 20 – 15-11

B: Raised LCMS did HS and college LCMS, married and LCMS minister. Moved to Charlotte in ’85, divorced in ’94, joined CL in ’95. Four kids 30-28-25-22. did all the pastor’s wife for years. I actually got involved with the brainstorm group before I joined the church because my friend Tom has left my church to come to CL and was a part of the group. I try to keep them Lutheran.

D: I’m an ACL guy – to break up the LCMS party here. I’ve been at CL 11 years, been at the brainstorming team for 6 yrs. Always active at church – but I got too old for sleepouts. J Amy pulled me in when I was a SS teacher and I didn’t like the curriculum so I wrote my own. She found about it and roped me in.

Tom (as described by the group) was LCMS and joined CL in ’94. He was in sales, then retired and got his master’s at age 60 then taught English at local community college. He retired again and now volunteers everywhere – he’s very service oriented. He and Dan are the writers.

D: Tom and I come up with real crazy ideas – the women keep us in line.

B: We talk a lot about the bible – great bible study

FF:       Talk about something you’re doing now?

D: We’re using a resource called Read the Bible in 15 minutes a day – and then we’re extrapolating from that to create an hour long Bible study for Confirmation next year. Different than Foundations – which is in depth Bible stories with activities.

B: Foundations is the best we’ve done – kids really learn the stories

D: We also did the Sunday school (SS) curriculum

FF:       Now series preaching

D: Yep, we’ve done all the series so now we’re just recycling and polishing stuff. I think we’re the oldest, longest meeting group in the church.

B: We used to meet weekly for SS and Christian Foundations. Did some stuff for Wednesdays Together. Now with the confirmation project we meet once a month

D: Now we email stuff to Amy when it’s done, so we don’t have to meet as often.

B: We’re not sure what we’ll do when confirmation is done.

FF:       This is a philosophical decision to write your own curriculum – higher investment, accessibility – this is an awesome amount of work.

J: We were purchasing curriculum but it wasn’t all used. We collected piles of leftover stuff. The materials were attractive but we wanted law/gospel, lectionary based so kids would get the same message in SS and worship. Pastors give us the main ideas for sermons 3-4 weeks in advance. This way the materials weren’t way out there.

D: We wanted more specific  - prepared curriculums were so watered down.

FF:       You wanted lots of law/gospel?

B: Yes. Getting the basics - without the basics their foundation is nothing.

J: SS isn’t like going to school, we wanted it to be creative, fun.

D: We’ve brought in actors, bible characters, etc.

J: Bringing the SS classes together – great to see grades 1-6 learning together.

D: That’s a great way to go – makes a lot of sense

B: 2-6^th grade together, then small groups in the Fellowship Hall.

J: It’d be like if we broke up here (in the deli) and everybody learned in this room at their table. The closings are wonderful too. Leader recaps the morning, we have a prayer, everyone is sent off with a message for the week. Amy usually does it – she’s amazing.

B: We meet one time a month at the church – we have an agenda, brainstorm, get our assignments, write it and send to Amy, she tweaks, and sends back.

FF:       Do you use other resources?

D: Pretty much all original thinking.

FF:       Tell about your experience at the church – how’d you get empowered?

D: That’s one thing our church does is empower people – always active, there’s always something going on.

J: [Christ Lutheran] draws on the experience and strength of its members. We’re fortunate to have incredible leadership that allows the involvement of the laity. Milestone ministry for example.

When we were church shopping the pastor picked our daughter up and welcomed her  - that’s where she wanted to be. The people there are salt of the earth.

D: Something for everyone. Variety of ways of worship, but still get the same message across.

FF:       You two (J&B) left the tradition of your family of origin and came to Christ Lutheran?

B: I didn’t feel comfortable at LCMS churches in Charlotte due to my circumstances. I was already connected at Christ Lutheran – good friend transferred there, kids did Boy Scouts there, former pastor was very supportive of me in my circumstances. Being in this group has been a great Bible study, lots of discussions that grow out of it.

FF:       Invited by a friend, supported by one of the pastors – that sealed the deal?

B: Tom said, “I think you will enjoy the group (brainstorming team).” So I came and this was all I did for awhile. Now I just finished 3 years on council. We’ve gone through interesting times. I think it says something about our congregation that the interim pastor who came from MN, WI comes back to live in Charlotte and be a member at Christ Lutheran. We have a vibrant ministry – have some members who are really good at inviting and talking to anyone who’s a visitor.

FF:       What can you tell me about McAlpine?

B: Well, I was on council while we went through it. We called a minister to do same church at another location – casual at a school. One church – two locations with Wednesdays together. Separate worship but schedule created so you could worship at both. They did only contemporary worship there.

They were outgrowing their space – had a deal on a new space that fell through. Looked at the people we were drawing – same socio-economic class (upper middle) in both places. Very expensive to run the 2^nd site. Difficult for the staff – hard t keep music people, hard on teachers. Staff came to council and said there’s no point to this, let’s bring it back in. We did – we lost some who wanted a smaller church. It was really hard – Pastor Jeff felt like he was a failure, which he wasn’t.

FF:       What was your target audience?

B: I’m not sure…

J: A non-denominational approach for people who didn’t want to worship in a Lutheran setting

B: Out there it was just Christ Church. They always worshipped there off a screen, no bulletins

FF:       3 years, 140 people – that’s a successful mission start.

B: Yes, but it wasn’t intended to be a mission start

D: On the other hand, Crossing Ground was really successful and is doing well (100 members of Christ Lutheran were commissioned to start it as a mission church.)

FF:       Pulling off new stuff means you have to have a fair amount of failure.

D: We’ve had that! Like the one where kids had electives. It seemed like a great idea. I don’t know why it didn’t work. We don’t let failure discourage us.

J: If there’s a conflict we talk about it. Ex. Confirmation has grown so large – we want the kids to have a set time with the pastor instead of all small groups, some of which succeed and some fail.

D: I think the small groups work when the kids’ parents are involved at church.

J: But there has to be a program, place, connection for the child who is just being dropped off. Takes conversation to work out those kinks.

D: I grew up totally involved in the Lutheran church. Now my daughter goes to the Methodist church with her friends. I can’t figure that out.

J: My daughter, too – she goes to the Methodist church because she didn’t connect with her small group.’

FF: This is the typical irony of parents who are totally invested – they have kids who aren’t involved. But this is an important question – how to support kids who don’t have family support for going to church. There’s two sides to it. 1) they’re a pain, or 2) they’re a missional priority – they are maybe more important than our own kids. Lutherans notoriously don’t have models for that….

Also, I just want you to know how amazing this is that you write all your curriculum – in most churches if it gets written by anyone it’s the pastor. It is really amazing how the laity is involved here.

B: That’s a compliment to Pr David because he allowed this to happen and the pastors who came after have not been allowed to question and haven’t questioned it. People would be up in arms about it.

Quotables/Comments:

This group enjoys being together – they had a great repoire with each other and easily included the four of us over breakfast at the Jewish deli. J All are VERY Lutheran in background – we thought it was not coincidence that ¾ of the group grew up LCMS. Their focus on going deeper in the scripture with all ages, getting grounded in it, understanding law and gospel, and teaching all age levels makes them an outstanding group for this task. They know their stuff and they are delighted that sharing it is a part of the way they can serve God through their congregation.

• B: “Getting the basics - without the basics their foundation is nothing.”
  
  
• D: That’s one thing our church does is empower people – always active, there’s always something going on.
  
  
• J: “[Our church] draws on the experience and strength of its members. We’re fortunate to have incredible leadership that allows the involvement of the laity.”
  
  
• D: Variety of ways of worship, but still get the same message across.
  
  
• D: “We don’t let failure discourage us.”

Key Observations:

• It is impressive that they have lay people writing curriculum. 
  
  
• The group has been together for years – they say they are the small group in the church that has met the longest.
  
  
• They are willing to let go of things that seem like a great idea but just don’t work out (such as “electives” for confirmation).

Back to Table of Contents

Observations from the Christian Foundations “Moses” event

(Saturday morning)

Hal, AmyGF, Greg, and Dawn

As part of the “Christian Foundations” program for 2^nd through 5^th graders, we observed a half-day event for parents and children on Saturday morning.  It was a very interactive, hands-on teaching day.  Pastor Jeff dressed as Moses and led the children through the life of Moses: going out to a lake to see baby Moses in the reeds, making bricks and pretending to be slaves, seeing the “burning bush,” pleading with Pharaoh by singing the famous song and throwing plastic locusts at him, eating unleavened bread, and running down the aisle of the church lined by blue sheets to simulate the parting of the Red Sea. 

Jan, the Director of Christian Foundations, was clearly organized, following close by with a clipboard without being intrusive to Pastor Jeff’s creativity and interaction with the families.  Jan stayed one step ahead of the process, recruiting parents from the crowd to put on a costume and act out the next scene, so that they were in place when the remaining families arrived at the next scene.  Other staff members were also very involved behind the scenes.  It was clear that there had been good communication among the staff and that they enjoyed working as a team.

We ate lunch together with another group of children and parents (about 100 total people).  We were told that the other group had experienced the life of Jesus that morning and that the two groups would switch for the afternoon.  We did not observe the “Life of Jesus” segment of the event.

Back to Table of Contents

10.30 am, 3/17/01

Hal, Greg, Dawn and Amy met with Pastor Jeff 3 times – during breaks on Saturday morning while he was playing Moses at the Foundations event.  Hal did most of the interviewing and Amy was the scribe.

Round 1 – 10:40am

FF:       Tell us a little bit about your history here.

I was called here in Jan ’97 and came in Feb ’97 for the specific purpose of creating another location. The purpose of that was never clearly defined to me or the congregation, I found out later. The previous pastor was very visionary to his personal cost – willing to do it and seemed to enjoy it. He heard about ELCA churches starting 2^nd campuses at the same time Ballantine was opening as a new housing development ($300,000-400,000 homes) Pastor Dave decided it was perfect for a satellite spot. When I came I had a vision to be very contemporary – start off using as much technology as possible. That was maybe not the vision of the committee. I think they thought we do worship well up here, let’s do more of the same down there. I thought the contemporary service needed upgrading here. Shortly after I came, Pastor Dave resigned. If he had stayed, I think we might have bought 20 acres somewhere and would be talking about selling this property and relocating by now. He would have thrown all of his energy behind this and made it happen. As it is, we had the 2^nd campus 3 yrs and 4 months.

After Pastor Dave left, the interim pastor, Dick D. came and was more focused on stewardship, which was good, but he didn’t believe in the 2^nd campus – squelched it, in fact.

When Pastor Scott came on board as new senior the following June or July, he embraced the 2^nd campus. People at the 2^nd site were asking me, “can’t we just do a second church?” I was still embracing the vision of one church; two campuses. Now, I don’t think two campuses would work for us or for anyone, really. It worked up in Fargo because Dave Johnson was willing to put himself out there and be present at both campuses.  Scott embraced the vision of the 2^nd campus, but the people didn’t embrace Scott, they embraced me but not him – we have different styles. I fly by the seat of my pants. We encouraged questions, and didn’t tell them what to believe – even though I have very specific ideas about that. These people wanted to work through the questions themselves.

After 3 years at that site I wondered if we were being redundant – doing the same thing in 2 places. I proposed to the council that we close that site and bring the congregation back together. At first they said no, but after they thought about it a couple of weeks they agreed. Some people were surprised and angry that we hadn’t consulted them about it. “We made the decision the way a large church should – this is the way God is leading.”

Now I am the pastor for evangelism and discipleship – and I’m adding adult education. Sally has been responsible for it, but her heart is really in pastoral care and facilitating small groups. “Our adults are not being challenged to be disciples – we’re getting ready to do that in a major league way.” All kids attend the same basic Christian ed. – now we’re going to apply it to adults so everyone will work on same topic each Sunday.

I’ve done lots of evangelism – following up with new members. Every other month we take in new members – last week we had 28 new families. We’ve tried advertising, visibility for evangelism. Now we’re changing our approach, telling people that discipleship means inviting people!

I love this church. They trust us – the staff, I mean. Sometimes we are too creative, we change things all the time, add things, we are trying to program people into a life of faith. I came here from the oldest church in the state – it almost killed me. Here it’s great – we’re always doing something new.

We have a saying around here – maybe you’ve heard it. “Good enough never is.”

We’re not there yet. We’re driven. But we play together well – we have issues but compared to other staffs it’s nothing.

I tend to play the role of asking what’s next – being out on the edge – pushing us out there is good.

I used to think (in my first two calls) that I was a great organizer. Now I have admitted the truth to myself – I am a terrible organizer. Now I can embrace that – like with confirmation. Jan is the best thing that ever happened to this church. I invest my time in teaching and preaching – she handles all the administrative stuff so I can have my attention elsewhere.

Round 2 – 20 minutes later

FF:       Tell us about the emphasis on Youth and Family ministry here.

We’ve gone from a staff of 1 to a staff of 5 in just the 4 years I’ve been here – now 2 full time and three part time.

FF:       How did this emphasis get started?

I don’t really know. It was already here when I came – we just took a good thing and made it better.  The previous Senior Pastor fought for the Children’s Center, and made it a priority.  I have a hunch it has a lot to do with him.

This Foundations stuff has been in place since before I came, and stays pretty much the same from year to year. Confirmation changes every year. For awhile, the youth director taught it, but they wanted a pastor involved so now I do it with Amy and Jan together. We have a real demanding program. Parents call it and IB program – they don’t mean it as a compliment but I consider it one. It’s an IB disciples-making program. We need one for adults! Natalya doesn’t do much with confirmation – she’ll go to camp and go on retreats, but otherwise she’s not involved. Camp has become a big thing here – now kids want to go – the kids who went the year before are talking about it and want to go back. Since so many of our kids go to different schools they sometimes don’t get to know each other until they go to camp.

This church has a lot of energy, positive feeling, really high level of trust. “Lead us to the Red Sea, we’re ready to go” kind of thing. Just don’t make us go first – you lead the way.

FF:       What has developed that?

Having a staff with integrity. There was some concern when Pastor David left – gossip that maybe he’d had an affair, distrust because of the way he raised money by asking specific people to fund his pet projects, etc. Pastor Dick (the interim) was a man of integrity and people fell in line behind him. He really worked stewardship, which was good for the congregation. We had a reputation for not supporting the synod much, even though we were the biggest congregation. Now we tithe to the synod. That really brought back the trust of the older people who were frustrated by all the focus on contemporary worship, youth and families with young children. That set the tone for Scott – and made it possible for both of us to do ministry here for the long term. With Pastor David there was lots of growth in the size of the congregation, but not necessarily in the depth of their faith. The congregation added lots of young families during the time he was here.

FF:       It’s unique here that vibrancy and growth sustained through difficult transitions.

Yes. Pastor David resigned in March, and the council gave him a 60-day sabbatical. So his last Sunday wasn’t until Pentecost in 1997. Then we had a 14-month interim. Mark and Amy had been here the longest – so the fact that they were still here meant life as normal. I think we have a church now that any staff person can leave and it won’t cost us too much – I say that as a good thing.

Round 3 – over lunch

FF:       What resources have you used as a staff for development?

“Built to Last,” “Growing Spiritual Redwoods,” “The Purpose Driven Church.” We did the Barna seminar last week – he talked about evangelism and adult ed. We’ve also talked about completely re-doing Wednesdays together as a result of that- which is hard. Whenever you have a program that’s been running well for a long time you hate to mess with it.

FF:       Where do you see that going?

Right now adults have 25 minutes of social time with other adults after the kids head off to their evening classes/activities. Now everyone will still eat together, but we will take the parents off together and do some intentional teaching – asking them “What is your goal for your own spiritual development” and have them set specific achievable objectives to reach it. My goal for next year is to get 20% of our active adult membership participating in this adult ed – that’s 350 people. A big goal, but I think we can do it.

FF:       Do you attend conferences as a staff?

Last year 6 of us went to visit a church that went from 90 to 3500 members in the course of a few years. They’re the ultimate multimedia church. We also did Barna – also check out things on our own to expand our ministry.

(As a  group we talked about breakfast at a nearby deli that morning. Jeff wondered “who invited the waitress to church? Anyone? Typical Lutherans.”)

My first call was in Hickory, NC – small area.  I was primarily a youth pastor. Second call, old rural church with more money in cemetery funds than elsewhere – I’m surprised I made it almost 5 years there.

FF:       We talked last night about how it can be a strength to be in the minority? Do you see that? Do people have a strong identity as Lutherans in this congregation?

Where I served before it was in places where there were pockets of Lutherans. Here it’s a Presbyterian place.

I love Charlotte, but the community is so different than where I was before. I have a lot less opportunity to impact my community. Here I only see church people – so I envy my church members – they get to work with un-churched people every day

FF:       What are your hopes for the new facility?

I’m one of the least excited people on the staff about the new facility – buildings don’t excite me anymore. Having led worship in an elementary school… buildings are overrated. I was looking forward to doing worship in a coffee shop kind of setting. I am looking forward to the new worship center – I really want a bigger narthex with a welcome center. If it excites the community – that’s wonderful. But if you need a building to make a ministry you’re not doing something right.

FF:       What are your plans for future staff?

Perhaps next year – ½ time assimilation person who will meet with every family to make sure they get connected.  “We want to shut the back door.”  Last Sunday we took in 28 new families so I asked a council member to visit them. Now instead of what do you need, we can say what are your spiritual goals. Opportunities:

1.      New member class

2.      Social time at the senior pastors house

3.      Jeff or Louise will meet and talk about how the congregation can help them and how they can serve the Lord.

Sally and I both feel like we need someone to do our administrative stuff. Do phone calls, get the details taken care of – so Sally and I will share someone, maybe. That might be Louise. Very important to me to present a good visual image. So I take our published stuff seriously – we have an attractive bulletin. We need to have a person on staff to handle publishing. For example, the catalogue, I think we should quit doing it. Have each area produce their info as needed. Quarterly or semester or whatever – schedule, topics, opportunities. Laurie didn’t come on staff to do bulletins, but that’s what she does. She has a great eye for graphic design and we need to make use of her. I know what I want it to look like, but I’m very particular about grammar – Laurie can do graphic design but she needs help with copy – she shouldn’t be doing bulletins.

It would be nice to have 4 pastors – we always have to have 2 pastors here for preaching. Might be good to have a strong lay minister on staff who preaches. Would be reflective of the congregation.

FF:       Administrative, assimilation for getting new people acclimated, re-activating . . .

I’m not much interested in re-activating – It takes a lot of energy for not much result.

FF:       Are you one of the team leaders for contemporary worship?

The 2^nd location was purely mine. Up here, this was Mark’s. Now he has to put up with me. I’m doing the images for the power point and he’s looking over my shoulder – interested. He strives for quality, excellence, like I do. I’d like to go farther – but that will take time. Even though we’re progressive it will take a little while to get used to the projector etc being there. We just started using it last week. People from the 2^nd site have been waiting for this since we came back. Of the regular worshippers up here, more women disliked it than men – they thought it was distracting during the sermon.

FF:       We’re looking forward to worship tomorrow.

Jeff - Last week we had everything – I loved it, a bit overwhelming for some people. This week will be a bit more palatable.

FF:       Do you have kids?

Have two kids – my wife works so we end up taking advantage of childcare at the church more often than I would like.

Oh – one more thing that I’d like to tell you about. I do Spirit Quest on Sunday mornings – we raise a tough issue of faith every week and talk about it. 20-25 adults coming. Throw out a topic – 2 rules – say what you feel and be nice. They discuss for 30 minutes then I ask if they can back up their opinions with the Bible – they usually can’t so that’s my job. It happens at 11:00 – really a great time.

Back to Table of Contents

Discussion of the interview process by interviewing team

Saturday afternoon:

• Our pre-trip meetings were very helpful.  Our first meeting with Tom Berkas was helpful for giving insight into the science of interviewing.  The second was helpful for processing our expectations. Talking about our skill set was helpful in setting expectations for each team member.
  
  
• Our brief conversations following the interviews were too short but the brief reflections we did have were helpful.
  
  
• We each had about half-an-idea of the purpose: Tom helped us understand the science involved in the visit.  The second meeting set the priorities of and established key questions for the trip.
  
  
• Four of us interviewed together with the purpose to mentor and demonstrate an interview team.
  
  
• The question was raised as to how we direct the interviews to explore the emerging themes without “tainting” or leading the answers.
  
  
• “We’ve been hearing this ..?” tends to shape the interviewee’s response. 
  
  
• A key for us is to talk to the key leader of the church first, whether this person be from the staff or pastors. 
  
  
• Post-interview discussion is most helpful to learning the interview process.  After listening to Hal interview, he told us why he asked certain questions.  At the beginning of each interview, clean the slate and begin over.  (Don’t make assumptions about this person based on what the last person said.)  This was helpful in formatting the process of quality interviews.
  
  
• It was good to pre-decide who would ask questions and who would help with the interview.
  
  
• There was some discussion about who should do what task (scribe, interviewer).  Plan to have interviewers experience and practice leading and scribing and establishing working teams.
  
  
• Our ideal would be to have ½ hour break in-between interviews, and a limited numbers of interviews.  However, we are at the mercy of the contact person at the site and also must fit into people’s schedules.  We could limit a site to a set number of visits in a number of hours to make sure of our process time.
  
  
• We should give more clarity to the site contact to set interviews so that they know that they have met our objective.  Otherwise, they may do more and more to be sure that they are fulfilling our needs.