Faith Factors Site Visit

Basilica of St. Mary
Minneapolis, Minnesota

Block Party, 6 July 2001
Interviews, 11-13 July 2001, 6 November 2001
Worship, 12 August 2001

The Basilica of Saint Mary
Hennepin Avenue and 16th Street
P.O. Box 50010
Minneapolis, MN 55405
Phone: (612) 333-1381
Fax: (612) 333-7230
bsm@mary.org
http://www.mary.org

Research Team:
Hal Weldin
Amy Frauenholtz
Dawn Trautman
Greg Priebbenow

Table of Contents:

1. Events
2. Physical Location/Context
3. Preliminary Research Findings
4. Basilica Block Party
5. Interview with George Barrett
6. Interview with Janel Lewandowski
7. Interview with Father Michael O'Connell
8. Interview with Melissa Streit and Emily Carlson
9. Interview with Gwen Riedl
10. Team Processing - Round 1
11. Worship Observations
12. Reflections on Worship
13. Interview with Johan vanParys

1. Events

Since the Basilica of St. Mary is in Minneapolis, we stretched our site visit out over several months, as our schedules permitted.

Friday, July 6

5:30p Greg, Dawn and Amy meet at Amy's apartment, drive downtown
6:00-10:00p Basilica Block Party
10:30-12:00a Processing at Restaurant

Wednesday, July 11

2:45p Hal, Greg and Amy meet at Rectory
3:00p Interview with George Barrett

Thursday, July 12

10:45a Hal, Greg and Amy meet at Rectory
11:00a Interview with Janel Lewandowski
12:00p Lunch in the neighborhood at Loring Cafe
1:00p Interview with Father Michael O'Connell
2:15p Interview with Melissa Streit and Emily Carlson
3:15p Coffee and processing at neighborhood Starbucks
5:00p Interview with Gwen Reidl at Children's Hospital

Sunday, August 12

9:30a Amy and Todd (spouse) at Traditional worship
10:30a Amy at Fellowship Hour
11:15a Amy at Contemporary Worship
6:15p Amy and Hal at Contemporary Worship

Tuesday, November 6

10:30-12 Amy and Greg interview Johan van Parys

2. Physical Location/ Context

The Basilica of St. Mary (BSM) is located at the convergence of several major traffic routes. The walls from Interstates 94-394 (east/west, northwest) surround the Basilica's lot. Hennepin Avenue runs through downtown Minneapolis right past the front door. Lyndale Avenue starts just south of the Basilica and connects with the Uptown neighborhood. A mile or so to the east Interstate 35W runs north/south, completing the set of major routes, all of which connect the Basilica to the entire metro area.

In addition, in each direction from the BSM there are significant centers of business and education. Dunwoody Institute is a world class technical college across I-94, and Minneapolis Community and Technical College is a block up Hennepin Ave. Just a few blocks to the northeast, the University of St. Thomas (located in the Highland Park neighborhood of St. Paul) built a satellite campus to serve the downtown community. The center of downtown Minneapolis, just a few blocks NE, is the home of IDS Financial Services, Lutheran Brotherhood, Wells Fargo and Target among others. International Market Square is across I-94 to the north, the trendy Uptown district is south a few blocks, and a window shopping walk through Nicollet Mall is only a few block east. Each provides opportunities to buy all things hip, trendy, elegant, herbal, or exotic.

Theaters and art also abound in the area. Within a one-mile radius of the BSM there are 8 theaters, ranging from the big tickets like the Guthrie, Orpheum and State Theaters to the smaller Red Eye Collaboration and Theater Garage. Orchestra Hall is a 10-minute walk east through Loring Park. The Walker Art Museum with its indoor and outdoor collection is two blocks west.

The Basilica is also located in the religious center of Minneapolis near 9 other churches/religious organizations, including Baptists, United Methodists, Episcopalians, Unitarians, the World Mission Prayer League, Billy Graham Evangelical Association, and a Jewish Temple.

Walking to the Basilica from the east (on our way from parking at Orchestra Hall, headed for the Block Party), we passed through a large housing area of condos and apartments that looked like part of a recent urban renewal project. Between this upscale housing area and the Basilica is Loring Park, (which is the site of the gay pride festival a couple weekends before, and a few small trendy restaurants and coffee shops.

After our walk, it's our guess that this is a place where yuppies live - at least on the east side of the Basilica. People also drive in from the suburbs to shop, do the theaters and museums, work, or hang out at the park, so that adds to the mix. To the north is the downtown area. To the west are among the poorest neighborhoods in the metro area. This is the heart of the city and the Basilica has intentionally made itself part of that.

3. Preliminary Research Findings

The Basilica of St. Mary (BSM) has several factors that we consider "genius."

Not Niche Ministry, Contextual Ministry
When Father Michael told us his story about standing on top of the crane looking around during the rehab of the steeple, each of us was surprised by his observation - it was the opposite of where we thought he would go.
Not "look we're surrounded by young adults"
Not "look we could be chaplains to all these students at all these schools"
Instead - "Look at all the adult learning opportunities available for people in poverty!"

Father Michael spoke first about the poverty level in the area, social justice, and social ministry as the foundation of the BSM's ministry; priorities he has communicated clearly to staff and parishioners. Together they ground their work in a passage from Jeremiah 29:7: "But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its well being, you will find your well being."

As a result, the people of the Basilica are united in working for the welfare of the city of Minneapolis. Their more public offerings (Basilica Block Party, Liturgy, Avenues, weddings) raise revenue, awareness and/or build relationships toward that end. The whole ministry of the parish, of which young adults are the core, serves this purpose.

7 years ago the BSM was not the place to be for anyone. Now it's a place where young adults, and people of all ages and places in life feel welcome. That's been a huge cultural shift. The Basilica Block Party made a public statement about the BSM's relationship with young adults, and the broader culture. As a signature event, it says we welcome your music, and your beer, your friends. We welcome you. Come as you are and meet us as we are. Meet the God we know who loves you and us.

Father Michael, though he might dispute his intentionality, read the context and worked it.

However, the development seems like it wasn't strategic. This ministry didn't evolve along a well thought out action plan. It happened. God happened and this young adult ministry showed up.

Physical Space
The BSM has an experiential advantage here. The average church can't offer that space, that caliber. Along with the amazing spaces (the worship center, Undercroft, Mother Teresa Fellowship Hall) the BSM has had a staff with the good sense not to "modernize." All the renovation and remodeling has been true to the original design and purpose of the building - a place to worship God and serve people. And it is all artistically done. The liturgical art is eye catching and appropriate for the space. The stained glass and massive columns engage the imagination. The worn wood pews remind you that people have been worshipping in this building for almost 100 years. Quality oozes from the completed work and made us wonder how breathtaking it will be when the nave (main worship space) is completely refurbished.

The ongoing restoration has revealed a magnificent building, one in which God's presence is palpable. When we entered for a tour during the Block Party, we were immediately hushed - not by the tour guides, but by the presence of the building itself. We all had the feeling that God was there in that space. (Or if He wasn't there at the moment, He'd be right back!). That same sense of presence was there also at the beginning of each worship service. 10-15 minutes before the services there were people praying and it was quiet. Even when more people had arrived, their conversations were hushed. That's one of the beauties of such a massive room - people can talk to each other and it's not disturbing - it doesn't take over the space. The building, and the feeling of God's presence that it creates, both encourage silence.

Doing the Basics Well
Liturgy, service, hospitality. These are at the root of how the BSM goes about ministry. No latest fad. No Purpose Driven Church. BSM is the opposite of churches we've encountered doing exemplar youth and family ministry visits. Rather than seek something new, they have gone deeper into their own identity as a Roman Catholic Basilica. The result is integrity and authenticity, qualities that have an intrinsic appeal to young adults. By being faithful to their roots, they have become a home place for a generation that other churches have no idea how to reach.

Leadership
Desperation ' Innovation ' Exponential Growth
Father Michael, and the diocese that placed him at the BSM have demonstrated savvy, and adventuresome context reading (God and culture). Rooted in service to the poor and driven by desperate circumstances Father Michael was attentive to opportunity as God offered it, and willing to take risks to make things happen. So in the midst of a context split between yuppie young adults and impoverished single mothers, a ministry staff with a flat organizational structure and the Basilica Block Party were born.

Father Michael took a huge risk in allowing his staff to run their programs and do their own hiring. By limiting his role to "vision keeper" he phased himself out of the day-to-day details of running the Basilica's ministry and fundraising. That demonstrates a high level of trust in his staff, and faith in their gifts for ministry. Autonomy and responsibility in an atmosphere of support have moved through the staff to the volunteers as well. People feel ownership in the ministries of the church; they are eager to volunteer and serve as they are called and able.

The Block Party was a whole risk in itself (see below). It's amazing that they have a block party. It's amazing they haven't been sued. After the first one, it would have been easy to say, "We're not going to do that again." In that light, the move from the first block party to the following years was huge. "We had the church locked (at the first one), the next one we opened it, now we offer tours…"[Interview with MS and EC]. The Block Party became not only a vehicle for raising much needed funds for renovation, but also a way to open their community to young adults and give them a chance to encounter God.

This is leadership that believes (whether or not they articulate it in this manner) that God is up to something. Those we interviewed spoke of a sense that this is God's world and we need to seek the well-being of it. Liturgy flows out of that desire to serve God and serve others - to live the Gospel in daily life. In liturgy, God will encounter you in physical symbols, physical presence, in music and the word. The Block Party says God will meet you in the midst of your culture. Opportunities to serve say God will meet you in your serving. The staff and lay leaders have a simple mission in this work. They welcome; God does the rest. Their philosophy seems to be, "Bring them in and God will be up to something, but only God knows what!"

Block Party
The annual Block Party is the BSM's signature event. It says we welcome young adults. The BSM folks are intentionally going after this group by not putting Lawrence Welk on stage. It's so outside what people imagine churches doing. It attracts the disenfranchised the way that a contemporary Christian music festival can't. BSM said we're going to blow the doors off this. Do we Christianize the culture or take in the culture and bring Christ to meet it? They made a clear choice to play in the culture's playground. The first year the archbishop called and said, "Tell me this is going to be ok." Now it's a normal event - an essential to the image and work of the BSM. The paradox of beer and basilica is attractive to Gen X-ers. Beer - Blues Traveler - and the Basilica in the background - it's a beautiful thing.

4. Basilica Block Party
Basilica of St. Mary's
Basilica Block Party
Friday 7/6/01
Dawn, Greg, and Amy
Reflections after the block party - Amy scribed.

Huge crowds of people lined up to get in to the block party at about 7pm. We heard on the radio that all 15000 tickets for Friday night were sold out. Scalpers were all around the entrance looking for single tickets, trying to buy and sell extras. Clearly this was an event people were desperate to go to. Later in the evening we saw many people sitting right outside the chain link fence listening to the music.

Entering the gates they checked our tickets, looked in purses, did not allow in outside containers, checked id's and those old enough to drink got wrist bands. Volunteers staffed all the stations at the gate.

Once in, we hit the catholic college alumni area - made the impression that college grads would use this occasion as an opportunity for an alumni gathering - a contact point for them to meet each other. A big party for Catholics to reconnect.

Signs on the outside of the basilica offered tours of the building so we walked up the steps to the main entrance. A group of volunteers were waiting outside the door and offered us a tour. The tour groups were small - the three of us were not added to the group of four ahead of us. We became a group with two other women who followed us up the steps. Our tour guide was a member of the Basilica and very knowledgeable about the building and its history. It didn't feel like he was trying to convert us to Catholicism, but did assume some background knowledge - like about the life of Mary, and Bible, saints, etc. He described the Basilica symbol to us without looking at his cheat sheet.

All tour guides were generally older than the outside volunteers - but we found out later that they self-select. All money invested in the Basilica has been to restore the original building particularly in the upstairs - that was a holy place. The undercroft has been recently remodeled to include a small chapel and lots of meeting rooms, including dressing rooms for the bride and groom - which was mentioned several times, and a huge space for fellowship which they use primarily for their St. Vincent DePaul outreach ministry to the poor. Restrooms were also added in the undercroft - previously there had been none in the Basilica building.

Part of their mission is to bring culture into the city center. Over the choir loft are 6 angels that they received from a St. Benedicts when they remodeled. That demonstrates a connection to the greater catholic community. Our tour guide mentioned graduating from DeLaSalle High school 26 years ago in the Basilica - another sign that their presence is deeply embedded in the community. The choir area is used by all kinds of groups, the organ has been well cared for. We saw no sign of musical instrumentation that would indicate they do contemporary worship.

They have 8 confessionals - all built into the inside of the basilica and are maintained.

Both tour guides mentioned the parish going from 1500 families to 5000 families since 1986. Yet there seems to be no compromise of what we consider traditional catholic piety - Mary, confessionals, 6 altars to patron saints…

When Mother Theresa died, reporters from local news crews visited homeless people in the city and said, "What does Mother Theresa mean to you?" and they said the Basilica - that's where our needs are met. They've been real about being a part of the city and not separate from it. Serving the homeless, bringing culture, bringing entertainment, and serving who lives in their neighborhood - young adults.

So inside there's the organ the choir, and confessionals. Outside there's rock music, beer, and tube tops. Crazy - but cool!

Outside:
There were two stages - the smaller stage was just off the front steps of the Basilica itself. The larger stage was at least 2 blocks away and under the highway away from the Basilica - however you could still see the dome over the freeway.

Crowd was very Gen X with a low number of people on either end of that age group. Almost all white, upper middle class. If you saw one part of the crowd you saw it all. People thought about what they were going to wear - not a lot of shorts and t-shirts. Lots of khaki and skirts. Also, most of the bands were white, low key, and appealing to that audience.

People clearly came with people they knew. They were standing in circles talking to friends and not necessarily close to the band. It was like a nightclub atmosphere without the nightclub - people hanging out and the music was just a background. A narrow enough cross section of people that we saw several people surprised to run into people they knew at the block party. Not as much public display of affection - some hand holding… that was about it - compared to Taste of Minnesota, 4th of July Fireworks, or Valleyfair. They had borrowed a couple ideas from Taste of Minnesota - like buy tickets in order to get food and drinks.

Not unruly - no marijana smell - lots of beer. People were friendly and respectful of personal space. A pretty low key crowd - very mellow. We all felt safe the whole time - not worried about getting our stuff stolen or getting caught up in a fight - we didn't even see any fighting!

On our way out we chatted with two volunteers who were sitting next to each other. They said they volunteered in order to meet people - namely other volunteers. Jerry - the chattier of the two volunteers said he signed up and then went to a sign-up meeting/party where he learned about what he would be doing. Jerry told us that he signed up for what he wanted to do and then they told him how to do it at this gathering about 6 weeks before the block party. He has lived in the Cities 3 years and goes to church in Inver Grove. Heard about the block party and signed up to volunteer. He was conscious of the fact that most of the people who are attending the Basilica are young adults. He also talked about the building and that money from the party was going toward restoration. Tom, the other volunteer, is a member of the basilica and attends mass weekly. He got involved as a volunteer because they announced it after mass and it sounded interesting… he said attending mass was an obligation so he just did it.

It seemed like there were a lot of volunteers who were organized - they seemed confident about doing their jobs and also enjoying the concerts. There were a few police around, as well as volunteers doing security and first aid. We saw a couple people in leg braces - people apparently weren't going to let major injuries interfere with attending this event!

5. Interview with George Barrett

Basilica of St Mary
Interview with George Barrett, Director of Education and Faith Formation
7/11/01 - 3pm
Hal, Greg, AmyG
Hal led, Amy scribed

Hal did a brief intro of the project and we each introduced ourselves. We did confidentiality info as well.

FF: Tell us about yourself

I came to BSM 8 years ago - I was working in the archdiocese and came in to help them to figure out how to do youth ministry in an urban setting with no neighborhood. I had 19 years in youth ministry before that. We had very small children's ministry, had the potential of having our first block party, only 12-13 families involved in the youth ministry

FF: So you had 19 yrs before coming here -

I did blended work with BSM for a couple of years (part time here and part time at another parish) and came full time 5 years ago.
When I came, we had a small group of young adults who wanted to meet and we created a program called Avenues for them. It was a small staff for that - I was the only person. Now there are four of us because of the young adult work we do - up to having a full time marriage coordinator. I am the team leader for the youth and young adult ministry- I coordinate the adult ed and new member - most of which are young adults - 93 last time we took in new members.

FF: What age range do you mean when you say young adult?

Young adult youngest is 23 oldest is 35

FF: Tell me about Avenues.

Started as a small group who wanted to socialize together so we came up with the concept of having wine, beer, cheese & crackers on the first Friday of every month. Our assoc pastor would host that. 12-14 people would come. Over time we had a group of up to 200, now consistently 125-150 each month. The purpose is to have a real sense of hospitality. A team is trained to welcome people into a physical space in the church - as if it were Rock Bottom Brewery - a setting easy and comfortable for them but in the physical setting of the church. At those events we advertise our other events. Our outside ring is all social - its meant to be that way, the first step of evangelization is social. The people are trained in the whole hospitality ministry - there presence is to be Christ to the people but they don't talk about it that way and that's intentional. We ask our leaders for a six-month commitment and then we change leadership.

FF: With your leadership changing does it have its own rhythm?

Avenues is larger than 1st Friday - Gwen is the chair of the Avenues executive committee (1st Friday, restaurant of the month, a number of social activities, connections to service and other opportunities). She just turned 40 - has some involvement over the last 5 years and saw the flux that goes thru and saw that it needs some organization throughout, so Janel Gwen and I are working to organize those fluxes. Now we'll say good-bye to those who served and welcome in those who will take over leadership with celebration to mark the tradition. We've never done that before but I think it will be really helpful.

FF: So there's a lot of turnover?

People serve strongest when they are new, and then their lives change or they move and that's just the way it is with this age group.

FF: So staff has been the consistency.

When I came in we sat down together with the initial group - 8 young adults - when avenues was just social, and came up with a mission statement and a structure: Hospitality ministry for people in their 20s 30s and 40s - a conduit into the regular ministry of BSM.

FF: Of the 90 odd new members, what percent of the group comes in thru Avenues?

Small percent. Most of the young adults in Avenues are already connected with a religious group - lots of Catholics. Catholics are the biggest pool because we already have that connection. There are non-Catholics who come but not necessarily through Avenues, attracted by the building and the sense of liturgy. They are amazed by the deep liturgical tradition - those that come in to the physical space are attracted to a deeper sense of faith because of the liturgy.

FF: Do a large proportion of those who attend worship come to Avenues stuff?

5000 worshippers here on the weekend- 60% are young adults which is a much larger population than we attract with Avenues. We know that. All the Avenues info goes out to those people but getting involved in BSM in the next step after Avenues.

FF: Any ministry congregationally based you have age specific stuff but not everybody shows. Confirmation being the only exception.

Like the high-risk retreats (i.e. lots of self-disclosing) that narrows your pool of participants. We find that with adults. Liturgy is probably the safest place for these people to come to. There's a whole liturgical spirituality that attracts people. I believe that.

I just dropped off a young man who's Baptist, came to the block party, took the tour, was struck by the beauty of the place, came to the liturgy and now wants to convert. We have lots of young adults that come in that way. The BP was meant as a way to get people on our premises - to connect with people get them comfortable here.

FF: So the heartbeat of growth in your Young Adult ministry goes much deeper than the program?

With young adults they've come into the process in all kinds of different ways. There's lots of kids - we did 228 baptisms last year so the numbers are just staggering because of this young adult population that has invested in this congregation

FF: So are they urban or suburban?

Once they have kids, a majority live in suburbs. Most of the young adults who come into the parish thru liturgy or avenues are urban - and western suburbs St LP, Golden Valley, Minnetonka, etc.

FF: Programmatically are there other pieces?

We have both sponsored supported sports teams, there are numbers of that - lots of those people have no connection to the physical plant of BSM - have a friend that's connected or something - but hopefully their team captain has had hospitality training and the team bears the mark of what the BSM is about. There's some sense of connection to the church. There's a way in for people that is non-threatening. There's the social activities - camping, Shakespeare in the park, bowling, golf, Mall of America. The present committee is saying we don't want to draw ourselves too thin. All these activities are burning out our volunteer leaders - who are in flux anyway. We need to be careful. In our structure our consistent pieces are communication and membership - we need to do that well. Attentive to what they need and communicate with our members.

There are also big events 3 times a year - a significant money laid out by the BSM reimbursed by the event - mardi gras at the Fineline, boogie boat cruise, Halloween dance.

FF: And the block party is one of those things?

The block party is a separate entity that runs by itself.

FF: Wasn't it initially started by some intention with Avenues?

It was started for that age group, (like Avenues, all young adult retreats and social events) but isn't part of the YAM staff responsibility. I have to make sure that the people invested in Avenues have a way to be connected to the BP hospitably - rather than just signing up as a volunteer. Avenues took over certain booths so people could know each other and be safe together in the midst of 15,000 people.

FF: Would you say the whole church is a hospitable place to come to?

Hospitality is part of our mission - in the way we serve food - cookies at every meeting. We facilitate we have physical hospitality. People have been trained or have skill building around their own hospitality and how to welcome. At least with all of our programs.

FF: What are you passionate about? What part of your work do you get jazzed about?

The whole initiation. I am honored to be involved in people's faith stories. Like this young man who has been struggling to find a church home for 4 years and to be able to be involved in that discussion, and take him on a journey with the community and get him connected - it's amazing. To watch people come alive in their faith… I remember sitting with this good-looking couple who wants to get married here. So I'm thinking the whole thing is about the wedding. But the conversation starts to change me. An hour meeting turned into a two-hour session about faith and struggle to find it in the midst of wealthy families - finding at the BSM. I was blown away. After every session they are the last people out because they have so may questions. That's what gives me passion. It's wonderful to be a part of that - it's an honor to be a part of that journey

FF: When your work gives you venues to talk about what's real and discover God's care - that's where it's at.

The structure of Avenues and these young adults is difficult because it's mostly about social opportunities. But it also provides the opportunity to invite someone in and say 'Hey Julie, would you think about being a sponsor for someone?' Now this person who's been catholic her whole life her faith means a different thing - it changes comes alive because someone saw her gifts and invited her. She comes alive in a new way. The most difficult thing is the constant transition - it's hard to encourage Gwen that she's doing a good job and that it's working in the midst of that.

FF: What's your mission statement?

To seek the well being of the city and in so doing seek your own. That's Father Michael's mission statement's idea - his way of being here. It's for the poor the marginalized. Avenues is involved in those things. We also have Boulevards for gays and lesbians, which is an offshoot of Avenues. Michael was really - he's not involved in my day to day activities - but he holds out the vision by getting people invested both financially and through his charism. You'll see that, he's just amazing. Most people who are invested in the BSM know that vision - that we are about hospitality, diversity, helping the marginalized.

FF: That's consistent through the whole staff team?

Yes. People really know that - you could ask anybody.

FF: It's stated and its real?

Yes. It's just part of who we are.

FF: Do you see that it attracts others because of that vision? Is service a motivator?

Not for most at first, but for some that's the reason why they're here. They know the basilica does reach out - a partner in the Jeremiah project, habitat, every day reaching out to the poor, partnership with Acension… they know that and that's why they are here. It's talked about from the pulpit. Fiath is not just about coming to church its about how we so we care for the people who sleep under the bridges. When the cops turn them out we hear about it from the pulpit. Father Mike talked about in sermons making sure our doors are open to gay and lesbian people. Usually you don't hear Catholic pastors talking about that. It allows people to have conversations they otherwise might not. It's kind of neat to have that.

FF: Both inviting and participatory?

Young adults sign up - you'll see them involved in all of our ministries. Sue Hayes, our director of volunteer services - says most of the young adult are coming in because they have no idea who they are and so they come to discover that here - its an opportunity to test their skills in a different way than their jobs do.

FF: Genius?

Michael's leadership is a big piece. Also a parish that through Michael allows a lot of creativity. We went though a structural staff change so that I became a manager - who I hire is my responsibility - that is unique. I don't go to the pastor to do that. People are allowed a lot of freedom and creativity. To take risks - the Block Party was a huge risk. To take risks in Avenues, in the way we do liturgy. Hiring the right people - Michael brought me in - he brought in key people start off thinking you're doing something else and then he says, 'so would you consider…' he selected us, brought us in through the back door and selected us to work together and manage the way things run here. And we work really well together

FF: 20 meters in front of the door band - inside a very traditional worship space. Can you comment on that? And its appeal to popular culture?

Not so much resistance to popular culture. Our worship is traditional, rich liturgy, the belief that people are drawn into something beyond themselves - into the mystery. That's what Catholics believe about liturgy and when it's done to the fullest effect we can touch God. When people come here there are elements of contemporary, but it's done with the richness of the high mass. Young adults who've never experienced incense the first time it assaults all their senses - smell, taste, all that - people walk out different because they smell differently because of the incense and whatever…

FF: How would you rate it?

High - young adults come here because of it. It is packed at 930 and that's our high mass. We do have numbers of young adults at our more contemporary services but our masses are usually full.

FF: Demographics. How many churched, how many Catholic?

I can get that info for you

FF: In general, what's your sense about who's being brought in over the last few years?

Over the last 3 years the initiation process (RCIA) out of 100 new Catholics, 12-15 are no church - never experienced prayer, conversation with God. 20-30 are unformed Christians. A bigger percent are from other faiths - formed there and are leaving some other tradition to come here. We have Catholics Coming Home, run by one of our adult formation staff, for people who have been alienated or hurt by the church - left it for some reason, it's a process of healing and reconciliation. A number of those have come unformed and so they go through the initiation (RCIA). The majority of ones that are formed, baptized Christians in another faith are the most challenging for me because I have to articulate my faith - like Mary for example.

FF: As you shaped this department have you shaped it intentionally? How are your work and God's work intertwined here?

When I first met with Father Michael I had a sense of how it would work, but I didn't know we would have the money and the support and the belief to make that happen, and it has. We kind of staggered a bit - let's hire a part time... then realizing we need a full time person the next year.

FF: How is God at work here in this parish?

For Catholics that's a hard question because we aren't used to talking about it that way. We are trying to get people to the place where their primary motivation is about Christ - the reason they are engaged in the Block Party or Avenues is because they are filled with Christ. Catholics have not had that in their language. In the whole initiation process - it's there. With new Catholics it's part of who we are. With old Catholics we don't have that language. That will be a whole evangelism in the church - how we articulate what Christ does for us and how we act out of that. It will be a journey. You might name it as ministry…people come because of Eucharist or service, but they wouldn't say I come because Jesus loves and fills me, and I need to give from there. And yet that's the most basic thing behind all that we do. It will be a learning curve.

FF: Formed and unformed, what do you mean by that?

"Something has gone on in their life that they've been able to connect God with their everyday experience, but they've never taken that experience of God into a conversation with a Christian community." So to be able to share that experience and identify it, to mark those experiences with ritual and prayer are not a part of their background - or they have been but they just didn't know how to name it.

FF: Anything we've missed?

Young adult ministry is the umbrella. Avenues and education components are my responsibility - but "Young Adult Ministry is much larger and much more integrated than just me or this department." Another piece of genius is the constant awareness of our need for collaboration and cooperation - we aren't there yet, but when we sit together we all know it's bigger than each of us. It's the block party, it's the liturgy, the way we do marriages, the way we do welcome, it's all those things and the way we do them well together.

FF: I celebrate the story that you told us. Mission that's not overseas it's across the street. Connecting people to God's grace. Hospitality, welcoming to the mystery of the liturgy

It's fun working here - this is the longest place I've worked at - its easy when you share in the lives of people and the faith they allow you to be in.

FF: I have a hunch about staffs - working well together how fragile that environment is - struggle and grace - how does that go for you here?

It's peaks and valleys - knowing that when it works its wonderful, and being aware that some times there will be difficulties with the same people because of our strong sense of ego. And you need strong personalities in a place like this, but that also gets in the way. There's a constant sense of working toward collaboration. When we disagree it isn't about our desire or our theology, it's about stupid stuff. Another good question is how to maintain a young adult presence in a time of transition. They have so many needs. I had a young man - 25 - on the board that was having some struggle doing his job - I met with him and he was shaking and sweating. The poor guy. He has a great job out there in the real world, and here he was petrified because we were in the church - these people are so fragile.

"For as many strengths as we have we've has some wonderful failures and learned a lot from them. So let me know if you want to talk to some folks about that."

Ask Father Mike about the marriage philosophy, its kind of a struggle for the parish - his idea is to have a great hospitable experience welcoming the family with no expectations beyond that.

Technology is a struggle - business has it but the church doesn't have access to it. We've started an email list because of a member… but we don't have broad capacity there yet, and it's very frustrating for young adults who expect it. And not having it seems inhospitable to this population - we seem antiquated and behind the times. That's where we'll fail if we don't work hard on it.

6. Interview with Janel Lewandowski

Janel Lewandowski, Director of Youth and Young Adult Ministry
7/12/01 - 11am
Hal, Greg, AmyG
Hal led, Amy scribed

Hal gave the intro, we intro-ed our selves, then started the tape recorder with Janel.
Janel's comments in italics.

FF: Tell us a little about who you are where your life intersected the BSM?

Who I am…I graduated from St Benedict's University. I got connected here because of Father Michael who was my parish priest from 0-18 years of age - he served on the board at St Ben's and we would meet for lunch when he was up for board meetings and he would tell me all about what was going on at the BSM. My first year I went on an alternative spring break trip and wrote BSM asking for some $ - Father Michael sent me a check for the whole trip and said maybe you'll consider doing something with ministry here at the BSM sometime down the road. That was the beginning of our courtship.

He talked with George (Barrett) and set up an internship for me. It seemed weird at first because most of my friends were going off to do internship in the corporate world, but I came here and it was great. I did internship here for 3 summers. When I graduated an administrative person was leaving and they decided to replace that person with program staff - children's ministry- there's five of us now, I had done youth stuff in college but didn't think I would make a career out of it. I wasn't sure at first.

Started a master's at St Paul Seminary in pastoral ministry and that has cemented me in ministry. So I'm the coordinator for youth and young adult ministry - I'm the liaison to the Young Adult Ministry particularly for hospitality.

FF: Tell us about the youth ministry piece?

It's been a challenge - there's never been an established youth ministry in this parish. In the past 5 years 4 ministers. Since kids don't live in a neighborhood it makes it hard - they don't know each other, they don't have shared experience. We've built a strong junior high ministry by building on our children's ministry so that might blossom into senior high. Weekly faith formation groups with kids, trips and retreats with adults are other components.

FF: What kind of stuff?

Kids have opportunities and enough to do in their lives so we try to offer unique opportunities. Most of the people who help with the youth are young adults here, it would be nice to have a mix of ages but my job has been to form and support these young adults as they try to evangelize and share their faith with these young people. I enjoy youth ministry - always challenging. And now it seems like being involved with faith communities is not a normal part of life - we have to compete with sports, etc. It's not just a given that people will participate.

FF: So we need to be all the more intentional about why people would come, you need to work at telling people what makes church a unique and valuable part of their life. This setting is unique; you really don't have a neighborhood.

We did a parish survey and most families don't worship here four Sundays a month - maybe 2 or 3. So that makes it hard to build relationships, when you know people build relationships through consistently being together/

FF: Who are the youth that come?

Most come with their parents, but some come because they think its important - which I think is really cool. Most of them are not in parochial schools - so they think its important to be a part if a faith community.

FF: Is confirmation a big draw?

Yes - especially tenth grade - there's some we haven't seen since first communion. I'm looking forward to building up from the junior high ministry to convince those kids to stick around for the next two years. We do a good job with the kids once we get them here - it's getting them here that's the challenge.

FF: So they're here mostly because of their parents. What do you do with them?

We have a small group of 8-10 kids that they meet with - we're in the middle of changing. We've been doing a three-year cycle on who is God, who is Jesus - and about the Catholic Church. We have adults who serve as learning guides for the kids, and each group has one section of the topic for the year that they do in depth and then present to the rest of the group and thus teach the rest. We had a problem with that just because we didn't have the same kids week to week. So we're changing. The change is because of that and also because we are grounding ourselves in liturgical stuff more - so we'll do more biblical work with the texts form the lectionary.

Kids notice if their parents drop them off - the ones who participate in the community have the most impact on their kids - they see themselves as partners in the formation of faith?

FF: Diverse population must be frustration as far as locations where the kids live. Do you focus on weekends?

Yes. Just the past few years we tried out some stuff during the week, which worked, but youth stuff is still mostly on Sunday afternoon. It's tough to deal with all the transience - I haven't found a model that works with it yet. I don't want to just send them back to a local parish, because they've found something here that they connect with.

FF: How do you see this shift affecting your ministry?

It's a unique opportunity to reach people in the broader community. But people complain that they have so many separate communities and none of them are connected and so it's hard to balance all that. Since I don't have kids it's been hard for me to understand that parents don't make church a priority… I've been reading a book about it that's helped me understand that we need to help families make sane choices for their health not to just make our programs run.

FF: Sounds like the pre-eminent piece for you is how to gather kids here around faith.

If we stop thinking we need to keep trying new things to get consistent groups and change the way we go about it, it would look different.
What's the age range of the gap your looking at for the other study?

FF: 16-24. prior to people getting married. That group is remarkably absent from churches. A surge of youth programs in the 70s has gone straight down. Wondering about the older adolescents and the young adults… why have they left the church, and what's the church missing by not having them here - what are we not having shaped because they're not around and therefore have no voice

I think it's challenging to advocate for a group that other people can't see. I've been doing that here. You can advocate so much for people but then they need to advocate for themselves as well

FF: Sounds like you've tried a lot of strategies.

We did all retreats one year, weekly groups of mixed ages, now small groups which is frustrating because of the inconsistency, now we're moving out of the Sunday School model to Sunday afternoon with teenagers doing more praise and worship / activity based stuff.

FF: What do young people like about BSM?

Emphasis on service and justice - I was surprised by that. They like the diversity. A lot of them think the building is beautiful. We have one girl from Scandia that comes because she can have a separate group of friends who know her differently, more deeply.

Young adults are attracted by the building, the block party, the reputation as a place friendly to young adults, and a place to meet other young people. They tend to attend the 615 Sunday night service - they feel like they fit in because the community is diverse - they can look around and see more than just families with young kids. There's a place for them here.

FF: How long have you been here?
Five years

FF: What are the moments you feel most passionate about?

This committee that I work with is really difficult because the organization is changing and shifting. But it has been really rewarding to work with young adults around the table because they want to live integrated lives. It's fun to watch them challenge each other and say how is this event that we're doing different than something someone else would do - how are we going to bring Christ to people. It's hard to integrate, and it's exciting to see people working this question

Since Gwen's gotten involved we worked on getting more people involved in hosting so we aren't doing everything - uncovering people's gifts and letting them use them. The retreats have been very powerful people getting connected and making friendships that are deep and related to spiritual lives.

FF: What would you say is working well in each?

Young adults - parish's concrete commitment to inviting young adults here - that's been intentional. Youth ministry - its been the unbelievable people who come out of the wood work and say they're willing to help in these amazing ways as volunteers.

FF: How has having so many young adults here shaped the church?

One way has been growth of the parish - young people come and get married have kids. From 500 to 5400 families. Having young adults in this parish has enabled us to do some things with technology because they bring the skills of how to do it. Like the block party wouldn't happen if you didn't have 2000 young adults pouring beer, doing the web site. It creates vitality, energy and hospitality in the parish. Young adults want to get involved especially because they don't have commitments to family. They want to meet people and get involved - feel a part of the community. They want to help out. It's a group of 2000 volunteers - we don't have any trouble getting volunteers for things.

FF: 4 struggling youth people who came before you, trying to serve the church and do their best in the midst of 5 yrs of great transition. Were there pieces of their work that you found valuable or did you start with a clean slate?

Starting out I think I was pretty arrogant thinking I could change the world, now I empathize - this is kind of invisible ministry here. Plus seeing the youth ministry and having expectations and not fulfilling them. I think the treasure that was left are the individuals that were groomed as leaders who are committed to youth ministry. Also the foundation of captive audience from the children's ministry. So we have had that benefit. I've known the families here through the children's ministry so I didn't have to start from scratch here - that was a big advantage.

Even in young adult ministry there's been transition. We used to have a guy who split 50-50 between youth ministry and young adult ministry and he was so charismatic. People would come because he was so fun and hospitable but when he left there was nothing. So we've intentionally not had a young adult person because then the people have to take responsibility for the programs themselves. We share between the three of us to make sure we get the mission and vision for young adult ministry out in the group and share the responsibility of leadership.

FF: This is a huge staff, how is that?

Sometimes I think it would be nice to go to a church with a pastor and a secretary… but it would be hard to leave here. Our staff is so huge and so talented and so experienced - most folks here have 20 years more in ministry than me. So it's a great example that people can stay in ministry, and I am learning a lot from them. There are communication breakdowns but at the same time we can pull off the block party without any of us being involved - hardly any of us that work in this building.

The committee of young adults is so transient - so leadership is hard in the midst of that. How can we make sure the baton gets passed when people are always changing? That's draining on the staff. So we decided to scale back events in order to get things on line and organized first. Our communication with people is the first hospitality. We are trying to get them to take responsibility for this ministry so that when people leave it doesn't default back to us. Gwen is working wonders - she's created some policies and procedures that are really helpful in a big organization like ours. That change has just been in the last 6 months. It is amazing that in the midst of so much transition that on the surface things have pretty much stayed the same

FF: How about tracking?

We just cleaned up our database and found that the majority of our people have moved. So now we're focused on hospitality and welcoming people - avenues is meant to be an entrance into the BSM ministry - not a ministry in and of itself. So we have had to be careful about that.

FF: How has the message you give them changed as a church because of that transience?

Continually inviting people in rather than seeing a lifelong journey for them here - although a lot of young adults are staying here. We know we have a better chance of getting them here for a one time event or a short term commitment - like on this committee will be 6 month term - it used to be 3 years but we never had anyone that long. We want to engage people who are uncertain about their future.

FF: So rather than expecting them to stay here for the long term you welcome them and nourish them here with no expectations?

Anonymity is attractive to young adults at first - they can come here and check it out. Then when they are ready for a smaller community they sometimes move to a smaller church. So we see them as seeds sent out into the wider parish when they leave us rather than wasted effort.

FF: How does working here form your faith journey?

For me its been difficult because I've wanted to keep some space between personal life and ministry - so I don't go out with people after a first Friday for example because I want to go home and see my husband, pet my dog. So when I know someone is new to town I don't go out with them to the bars or whatever. I'm still guarded about my personal life. Working with these young adults has been helpful in my understanding transition - what kind of theological and theoretical framework can help with those transitional times. So I might not always be going through these transitions, but I can understand and help them work through it.

For George there's not the expectation that he will hang out with them. I think I feel that because I'm younger and I don't have kids. The ones that I do connect with are involved in youth ministry as group leaders - because they've taken another step in and I work with them more closely. They are more committed to the questions I'm interested in exploring.

FF: What's the genius behind what goes on here?

We see the value in inviting young adults into the church. I know that there are a lot of parishes that don't know what to do with you until you are married with kids. They don't know where you fit in. I think this is a place for people who want to struggle with faith questions, to grow and ask questions - working through a conscious decision to welcome and accept all people as Christ has been made specific to young adults. Part of it has been looking at all the young people downtown and all the freeways and saying - we can do something different than suburban churches - give people a place to experience diversity.

FF: How does preaching fit in with young adult ministry?

I think the way the preachers tie in the scripture to real life - what is the morality here, how does it connect with our lives. It's more than just giving rules - it's giving a framework, asking people to think about what you're being called to, how you are being called to respond to God's love. There's a lot of talk about the community and how we are called to serve the greater community and the parish. I think that has appeal for seekers who are weary of institutions and want to serve.

FF: What's up for the rest of your day?

I'm headed home early today. My big commitment this summer is the Summer Stretch program - service and fun combined for youth. Parents feel good about it because their kids are doing good stuff, I like it because I can hang out with the kids instead of doing administrative stuff. It gives me hope for the future of the youth ministry here.

7. Interview with Father Michael O'Connell

Interview with Father Michael O'Connell, Rector
7/12/01 - 1pm
Hal, Greg, AmyG
Hal led, Amy scribed

Hal did intro - Fr. Michael chatted with Greg about Australia

FF: Your own entry into the stream of ministry here at the BSM - how your role shaped itself?

I came in Aug 91. Came with the expectation that I would play a significant role in fundraising to save this church - it had serious structurally failure $6+ million. I hadn't ever raised that much money… but I was attracted to the challenge and to saving the building - it has value for the church as a greater community and in terms of architecture. Even before I got here I knew we needed to raise a lot of money and grow the parish population. In the mid 80s the parish was less than 700 households - probably older people 50-60 yrs old. In the 50s it was thriving but it went through the usual urban stuff. Started to grow back in the mid 80s and was moving along when I arrived. We had to intentionally grow the parish and raise significant funds.

Within a month of coming here I met Sharon Sayles Belton who was chair of the city council then. She said, "If you and your other senior pastors in this city don't establish a moral presence in this city we might as well turn out the lights and go home. We need you to get involved in the city, establish a moral presence." She said it in such a way that I couldn't forget it, even though I was swamped at the time and didn't really understand what she meant.

A friend from Loyola came to visit also within that month and told me about the Jeremiah project in New Orleans - community organizing. Referring to Jeremiah 29:7: seek the well-being of the city which you have been sent to in exile. Well being = shalom = the deep good of the people not just the city. I talked with a rabbi I had just met and he helped me with a deeper exegesis. In Jeremiah everybody has arrived in the first exile and they are belly-aching about having to leave Jerusalem, and Jeremiah says quit whining, and take what you've got and make a difference - and they did make a significant difference. I listened to that and that became a very important piece.

Then in 1992 the mayor said, "In 1982 26% of kids were born to low income single parent family - destined to repeat the life they were born into. In 1990 it was 47%" - this was the spine of poverty and injustice going on here in the city. It was an incredibly devastating reality - I connected with Sharon's comment and the Jeremiah passage and my call here to raise big money and grow the parish. We took an already existing intentional social outreach ministry (St Vincent DePaul - shoes, bus tokens, etc) and exponentially increased that. We showcased that in the midst of our parish mission. (He gave us copies of the BSM mission statement on the back of the Basilica magazine) We started with Jeremiah 29:7 and then formed a mission statement. Helping the poor is the standard of who we are and our integrity is built on that and started to build our ministry.

I developed by sheer luck a fundraising mechanism - a huge crane in the front yard with a boom for repairing the roof. I used to take people up in it to look at the BSM and talk about the needs of the parish, and I'd say look there's Dunwoody this world class tech school - look Minneapolis Community College - look there's St Thomas building their satellite campus, and over there Metro State. It occurred to me that I was looking at the largest adult ed consortium in the country - all within a few city blocks. I thought about how to break that cycle of poverty - access to education. If mom graduates from college then her kids will think they can. So there's 144,000 good jobs downtown, critical mass of employment, of education… maybe we can do something about that. At the time I get the president of NSP (electrical/power company, now Excel Energy) up in my bucket, and he's holding on to the cross on top of the basilica dome and I say take a look at this parking ramp owned by NSP. We need that to make a housing development that's a safe place for moms to raise kids. He says, "But I'm Presbyterian." I say, "That doesn't matter, we need that space to make this city better for these people." So NSP gave us a ½ million dollar piece of property - and we've done it. Together with 7 downtown congregations, business people, presidents of the colleges, local government, neighborhood association, we built a housing development - that became the Jeremiah program and we built that and now we're going to expand it. You'll see it; it's just across the street. Westminster Presbyterian and the BSM put 900,000 on the table and invited other congregations to join with us to build 55 habitat homes over 3 years on the near north side.

I became a pastor at Ascension a couple years ago - a distressed parish on the near north side that we can help because we're blessed. We are losing two priests - one retires and one dies - for every one that graduates from seminary, so we need to be attentive to how we can keep those neighborhood churches going.

FF: How does YA ministry fit?

I'm getting to that. I'm painting you a picture here of how it all fits together - I'm Irish - it's the way I communicate.

The outreach thing is a very attractive part of this congregation - knowing that we are involved meaningfully in the city. There are some young adults to whom this is the most attractive part. To others they know it happens and feel proud about it.

There's a curious paradox here - you hear about young adults not being turned on by "old church" but here you have a church that couldn't be older - its as old as you can get in terms of design - and it totally appeals to young adults. When you go inside you feel it. They love it. If you read the mission statement you see we are rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ. After that first line is quality of liturgy - and the quality of liturgy is wonderful. We preserve classic music - pre-vatican 2, now 30 years of quality contemporary compositions. Also a quality contemporary service at 615 on Sunday eve - we started with 100 people now 1000. We engage the whole spectrum of our population in our liturgy - we have 8th graders proclaiming the word - if you had told me we'd have that a few years ago I'd have said no way - but our Christian Ed person is really great and she persuaded me. So if that's their gift we let them do it, and they do a fabulous job. Our color diversity is not quite where I'd like it to be. Worship is the place we need to make our big investment - and doing great worship in that space - you can't be beat.

Every month we have our new parishioner dinners (and now a brunch) and 80% of those who attend are in their 20s or 30s. We ask what's your name, where do you live (500 zipcodes - we have huge visibility and great access). The reason people came to the basilica is, "I saw the church and it was beautiful and I loved that and I came to the liturgy and I loved that and I thought it would fee kind of empty but I was struck by how hospitable it was." That's the key - it's about welcome. Keep those doors as wide open as you can keep them. Keep reminding people that we have a key need in our nature to feel welcome and to feel like we mean something. So we work extremely hard at that. My biggest job is to be the vision and mission keeper - holding that over everything we say and do - to make sure we're keeping it. 7 out of 10 say I felt welcome I was welcomed. M-T-W-Th-Sat we do outreach to the poor and the undercroft (which we remodeled) has a huge room that is meant for them. They used to have to squeeze in a tiny room here in the rectory, but now we have this great space. We use it for wedding receptions, but it is for the poor. We put in huge bathrooms with showers so we could be a part of Families Moving Forward - the ministry for families trying to get out of homelessness - it's hospitality.

How about the Block Party - our ice cream social for 30,000 people. : What is this thing? Evangelization big time. We needed to grow the parish and said why not young adults. A friend of mine at St. Patrick's in Chicago started a block party in 1982 to save their parish. In 1992 a staff member showed me the front page of the Chicago paper with a story about their block party. So I sent her down to research it and now we have it. It's like preparing for DDay, but you follow the rules. You pick the band, you pick the radio station and you stick with them. People will offer you other wider audiences but you have to say no. Someone offered us a radio station that would reach 50,000 more people, but I said, "I don't want the name of BSM coming out of that DJ's mouth." When we did it in the first time in 1995 we freaked out the whole Twin Cities. One TV station took a vote on whether or not people liked it. The day before we did it, the Archbishop of the Diocese, who had known me since I was a boy, called me and said, "Tell me this is going to be ok."

If you want to come great, if you want to drink, wear a wrist band. People joke about Catholics that we drink and smoke - and we do. I'm a recovering alcoholic myself, so I get it. We aren't about a big drunken fest - But we are creating a space for their culture in our space. We went from 250 people at the 6:15 service in 1995 to 1000 now because of it. We have great education. We have Avenues to get connected with social, spiritual enrichment here at the BSM.

But the thing that's at the heart of it is hospitality. And when they come here (young adults) they are the majority. These are college educated people in their 20s and 30s and they are in the majority. They come back from college and they don't connect with their suburban church anymore. Families who divorce in the suburbs end up worshipping here because they have some identity here. They fit here. Its not that you can't pull off effective young adult ministry in Eagan, it's because your main demographics work against you. The young adults aren't out there; they aren't a presence in suburban churches. They come here because they can be in the majority. They are a part of every committee. Young adults put out the BSM magazine 4 times a year as volunteers. Other than postage the Basilica Magazine is a free ministry for us. There's so much talent here. They are in the midst of a scary time in life and they come here and have strength in being part of this larger identity. This is possible in every denomination if they have a place like this building and want to go after it with intentionality, it is possible.

FF: How about wedding, pre-marital stuff?

We do preparation with 120 couples for marriages here. 35-40 of those we prepare are getting married elsewhere. Then we do annulments getting people ready for second marriages. Our marriage director and her husband lead post marriage enrichment stuff too. We also have Catholics Coming Home in advent and lent - meant for disaffected folks - a way to come back through a healing deal. We had to change our rules about who can be married here. It used to be if you were on the rolls you could get married here. Now you have to be a registered and active member for 6 months and you will still be planning a year or more out if you want a good date. That reduced our number of weddings. We have a fabulous premarriage program here. Do Prepare/Enrich and also a temperament workshop as a pre-marriage retreat.

FF: Reflect on what you've told us - is anything missing?

I left out 2 pieces of the array - the ecumenical group at work down here - I serve as the dean of that group. That includes the temple. The attractiveness to young adults is that we are grounded in that. We also celebrate the arts - the sacred arts are the center of our lives.

60+ employees and no parish school. Since I took on a second parish we had to flatten out our management. Now we have 8 senior managers who've taken on huge responsibility and five teams that meet in staggered schedule - I go to the meetings but I don't lead them, I'm the vision keeper and the mission keeper. We've tried very hard in the last three years to reform our management - to hold up the phrase healthy relationships as the standard for working with each other - palpable respect in the work and staffing culture here. How do you achieve this? We have huge retention here which makes it much easier. We held up three words - consultation, communication, consensus. Those are the guiding words we use as a staff, it takes longer, but it's worth it. We did our budget that way this year - rather than doing the wizard of Oz (where we have this much need and this much money and someone goes behind the curtain and comes out with a solution), we had all these groups meeting around it and together we took it down until it fit and we could move forward. There are still issues involved but we have a good formula and we work at it.

8. Interview with Melissa Streit and Emily Carlson

Basilica of St Mary
Interview with
Melissa Streit - outgoing Special Events Coordinator in the Development Office and
Emily Carlson - incoming Special Events Coordinator in the Development Office
7/12/01 - 2:15pm
Hal, Greg, AmyG
Greg led, Amy scribed
Melissa's comments in quotes
(While Emily went to get us some beverages, Melissa told us about the buildings that surround the basilica.)

M: This building was originally created to house the nuns, but shortly after it was built our nuns got reassigned. So we rented the building out to a law firm in the 80s then reclaimed as staff offices. The school building next door is leased to the Minneapolis public schools for a middle school magnet school. Part of the building is also a section for students working on a GED.
(Emily returned, Hal intro-ed the project, Greg led the interview.)

FF: Tell us about yourselves and how you got involved at the Basilica?

M: It's my 4th yr at the basilica. I worked the block party for four years - both work out of the development office - so we're about raising money for $17 million necessary to renovate the basilica and the undercroft. Special events are our deal - basilica block party, donor receptions, gift correspondence, three other special events. I'm headed to Ascension - our sister parish - to work in the development office there, and Emily will be taking over for me here.

As for my personal life, I wasn't raised Catholic. Got married to a life long catholic, and joined because of that - we got married here. I started out as a volunteer, then joined the staff.

E: Started here after graduating St Thomas, raised E Free, mom was Lutheran. I'm still not Catholic. I've worked here for a month and a half here and I'll take Melissa's job when she leaves for Father Michael's other parish.

M: Sue Hayes, at the time of the Block Party's start, was very active in the development office and is originally from Chicago. She saw the block party there headlined in 1993 about 53 couples who had met through the Old Saint Pat's Block Party and got married there. She showed that to Father Michael because he was trying to grow the parish and saw it as a connection. He wanted to attract young adults - give them a place and a faith to ground themselves and meet people. So after 18 months of prep they had the 1st block party in 95. Now after 7 years we are pleasantly overwhelmed at how well this has worked getting young adults involved, creating pools of volunteers…

FF: What makes it work so well?

M: In the beginning it was kind of the irony of it all. Father Michael did a TV commercial for the first year as a PSA. It showed him walking down the steps of the basilica with a checklist and reading it aloud. 300 kegs of beer, check. 2000 brats, check… etc, etc. Then he looked at the camera and said, "But make sure you drink responsibly because at this party we have one heck of a bouncer." And lightning blasted the steps - then the tag line "The Basilica Block Party - the party of a higher order." All the stations were running the ad - news stations were taking polls. That interest piqued in 95 and got us the crowd. Now the reason has diversified. Now it's a bonafide summer entertainment opportunity - on the level of taste of MN, the State Fair, etc. On another level it's a chance to check out the BSM

E: On a more casual level.

FF: There are values here - what are they?

M: the party of a higher order is our mission statement slogan and we stick to that because Father Michael is a recovering alcoholic - I don't know if he told you that. He wouldn't want it to be anything itself, it's a part of the BSM presence in the city. We make decisions about the event not about revenue, or huge crowds… the first year we shut down the whole church all the buildings, and when it didn't burn down people said, why are we shutting the doors? Let's get the people in! When asked if he wants to expand Father Michael says the party has to be around the Dome of the BSM - that's what we're about. It's evangelical - maybe subtle, but we welcome in that culture in order to welcome them into the parish itself.

FF: How have people come through the Block Party into the church?

M: Though our events are separate from Avenues they really are intertwined. When we looked for people to take on a chunk of responsibility for planning the first block party, that's who we went to. The departments are separate, but the people are interwoven. Our original leaders came directly out of Avenues. When people come to volunteer we ask them if they want to get involved in Avenues… I think our guests don't see any difference.

50 households a month join this parish - so we invite them in at new member dinners and invite them to get involved. When we ask people to say how they got involved there are always a number who say, I came to the Block Party or I volunteered at the Block Party and any parish that will do this is a place where I could belong.

For ex. The 6:15 mass used to be 300 people now its full and we seat 1100 people. For Father Michael and other folks the question is what do we do now to have this be their parish on an ongoing basis?

We went through a process of strategic planning, and asked are we a transitory parish or are we a cradle to grave parish? We are really looking to be a long term parish for those who are interested - those who want us, we want to be that for them. So the question has come up - do we re-open the school? Huge numbers of people in Sunday School and youth ed. And the question of everyday education for kids is important because often you can't send your kids to a parochial school unless you are a member of the parish.

FF That question can seem like a no-brainer in the midst of such high demand for parochial schools here in the Cities.

M: that might be true, but it is a huge on going commitment financially. Then the question becomes who attends? Kids from the neighborhood that aren't members? As a cathedral we have a broader commitment to the diocese and how does that work out? Also Father Michael is on year 10 of a 12 year call so how would that work with a new head pastor? So they're really working it through.

FF: So in the conversation about life long or transitional, was it an either/or? It doesn't seem like it would have to be.

M: It is very much both lifelong and transitional. Inevitably we are transitional - especially for those under 35 moving every year is typical. Our location, the demographic of our parish - Minneapolis is a transient city. We are aware of that and we have no control over some of it. People may not be leaving because of things we are or aren't doing - a transfer is a transfer. For people who are looking for a parish, how can we provide that for a life long commitment as well.

FF: Emily, what stuck you about coming here as a young adult?

E: As a young adult I was struck by the youth that is here. I was looking around at different areas to work, decided I'd rather work for a non-profit at this point. I had worked for corporations and the motivations there weren't in line with mine. This place seemed like a good fit.

FF: Melissa, how about you?

M: It would be so much easier to talk about how it hasn't. Literally, that's true. When I moved here I was not catholic, I did not have a parish. As a volunteer I was involved in RCIA - and it was amazing how many different stories and the variety of faith stories and the way the spirit works is amazing. I can't begin to quantify… When I grew up going to church was just a responsibility. Coming here after graduating from college this was the first time faith or the spirit grabbed me… I experienced personal growth, personal comfort, experienced church as something as more than responsibility. My struggle was is it just the church or is it the Catholic faith? If it's just the church then it wouldn't be right to change faiths.

FF: RCIA what is it?

M: My father's family is all Lutheran so they were interested, too.: When I did it, it was a 9 month process you started in the fall and confirmed and/or baptized at the Easter vigil. When I did it there were over 50 converts plus sponsors. Now they've changed it because they asked why 9 months - does everyone's faith journey fit that? No. Some people might take years. Some have come in already well catechized and just need familiarity with how Catholicism differs. So we have a series of classes at different levels that people can jump around in. Some people come with very little formation, others with more. It was very foundational for myself and my husband because he was my sponsor so we went through the engagement and marriage process while I was participating in RCIA.

FF: Genius?

M: Where I have found comfort as a parishioner is that this is a parish that's willing to meet you wherever you are at. That we are all on this journey together. That there's no right and wrong. That was very reassuring for me compared to the stereotypes I had of Catholics coming in.
That's what the Block Party is about - who you are, where you're at, we invite you to come for this, come for more, but come for this. You are invited.

FF: Where do you see the Block Party attracting people from?

M: not really sure. I'm pretty sure they're not all Catholics. We did have a market research team come in 1999 and ask 250 folks questions. That was interesting info for us. From that info 90% are not members of the parish. They didn't ask volunteers - most of whom are parishioners. Some who came probably didn't realize that it was a church function. A lot of them if they would give a denomination wouldn't say Catholic. The other message here besides inviting people to try this parish is here is a church that welcomes you - maybe another church will welcome you too, if you would never consider being Catholic.

FF: And it sponsors a huge event in the city.

M: Father O'Connell feels a commitment to the city of Minneapolis - that the BSM is a moral compass for the city. That extends out farther than parishioners.

FF: Collaboration with other faith communities in the city… does that just happen pastorally or on a broader staff level?

M: Started pastorally… now with Habitat for Humanity it will involve collaboration on a wider staff level. The downtown pastors, plus Father Michael is tight with the former senior rabbi at the Temple Israel and with the Right Rev from the Episcopal Church and their friendship sparked Jeremiah and the pastors group in the city. What is our responsibility to low income folks who have inhabited the hwy 55 area? - with BSM at one end of 55 and Ascension at the other end Father Michael is passionate about that.

Faith Forum held in other churches talking about faith from different perspectives. Reinforces that the likeness are greater than the differences in all faiths. That has really broken down walls in between groups.

FF: No collaboration around the Block Party?

M: for us it was an intentional consciousness-raising event to say hey - we've got a basilica. The Block Party is our signature event

FF: Young adults how does that play out in the Block Party?

M: wouldn't happen without the volunteers - pouring beer, grilling brats, taking tickets. We have a three staff people that work on it, and we hire some consultants, but volunteers do the rest. We have 50 volunteers on a planning committee that starts the year before. Committee meetings are here. Thank you parties are here. We want people to get used to being here, and get in the habit of volunteering here are and want to come back.

FF: Do the young adults feel a sense of ownership with the Block Party?

M: there is a huge ownership and pride in this parish because this belongs to this parish and to these young adults... Do you want some materials?

FF: Of course we do. : So who all do you hire to organize the block party?

M: Five consultants - corporate sponsors, production (Bands), ticket agency, entertainment booking, executive director (site logistics). Volunteers do the rest.

9. Interview with Gwen Riedl

Basilica of St Mary
Interview with Gwen Riedl, Chairperson of Avenues Executive Committee
7/12/01 - 5pm @ Children's Hospital
Hal, Greg, AmyG
Hal led, Amy scribed

Hal intro-ed. Gwen's comments in italics

FF: Tell us about you and when your life interfaced with the BSM how your involvement came about…

[clarified Hal's question]. I've been attending mass for five years and didn't join until a couple years ago. Started attending because I was dating a member of the basilica. We broke up but I continued because I like the diversity, the mass, and of course the building is beautiful. The break up was significant so I got involved in Avenues as a way to meet people…then three years ago I got this wild hair to start a cooking club. I went to the Avenues board to propose the idea of starting a small group, 3 men and women who would gather in each other's houses and cook meals with each other. The board really grilled me about it because they wanted groups that were open to anyone and this seemed exclusive. My rationale was that I wanted people to get to know one another and my house so they'd know where the pots and pans are so they can cook.

FF: So they were concerned about the closed group and they wanted it to be open?

Yes. Finally they said, "You can do a cooking club as long as you find a club for everyone to be a part of that wants to." The first people that called made a happy group - 3 men, 4 women. Then people kept calling, about 20 total - so I would ask, why are you interested, what do you like to eat? I started out asking what people liked on their pizza because that was the menu for the first event, but I kept asking people about their food interests. Their responses were interesting to me. For many people, their interest in cooking came out of their own food sensitivities - kosher (and I thought these were Catholics!), food allergies, i.e. couldn't eat garlic, onion, tomatoes, etc. By the time I put together this whole group there was no one food we could all eat, and I was really nervous. The first group met and we made an appetizer together and sat down in the living room and I said, "A funny thing has happened - we have people with all kinds of food issues and I'm kind of wondering how we're going to do this." One guy said, "Why would anyone be in a cooking group who didn't like onions?" And the person next to him said, "That would be me" - thinking she was the only one with food issues. Then several people realized they had food issues and that started a discussion about what people really wanted out of the cooking club - fellowship, a place to meet people and develop relationships. Some came to the cooking club because they enjoyed cooking or the joy of dining in a group, but as a single person it's hard to create that. They talked about how they could either accommodate one another or those who had sensitivities were willing to skip over certain food items so as not to impede the group - there was a genuine display of compassion. That's when it became a ministry and not just a social group. While the cooking club was going, I was frequently tending to individual needs, I learned how people in this group were dealing with their own brand of suffering; either a personal crisis or some feeling of inadequacy. I often found myself coaching people back into the group who had reservations that "their home wasn't right for hosting" or a similar issue. I tried to constantly remind people that they were always welcome and encouraged them to strive to contribute by hosting. It became a huge lesson for me in being "guest" and "host."

So I cooked with one group and then enough people were interested for another group so the two groups would do stuff together every once in awhile. I had a friend who was a chef who gave a cooking lesson. After awhile I was looking for someone to take over the reins and no one did so the group petered out after a couple years - which is long running for an Avenues event.

As a result of this cooking group and seeing the needs of this population (mirrored by my own needs) I felt an advocacy need for this population. For the most part, many of us have resources such as jobs, but there are struggles and suffering of a certain kind in this population that needs ministry. I started developing this concept of hospitality and George asked me to create hospitality training for people who host Avenues events. "The Christ in me meets the Christ in you" Hospitality training covers two things: 1. What Christ's lessons around hospitality are for us, 2. Miss manners - a complete social interaction; i.e. how to greet people, how to introduce people to one another, how to leave a conversation gracefully, how to handle people who are acting out. When you have events that serve alcohol like we do you need to be prepared to deal with that.

FF: Training takes two hours? How fun is that? Out of this year and a half experience with the cooking class came this model that has been used in different venues.

I had been in an intense spiritual training program and I needed to do a service project and asked them (the cooking class group) to help me. I thought we'd serve a meal for the homeless people or something - a one-time deal. They said, "Let's teach kids how to cook." Then divine intervention - Acension church school (sister parish to the Basilica) just finished renovation of a kitchen/cafeteria and wanted programming to teach kids about careers. So the cooking club taught in there once a month in the evening with kids who are 11-12 yrs old. We did very simple meals, table manners, food safety and handling and cooking skills - it was really fun - cooking with kids is more fun than cooking with adults! We did apples and cheese, Mexican foods, lasagna, pizza. I didn't have any trouble finding people to help me do it but I couldn't find another leader, and when I took over the chair of Avenues I couldn't find anyone to take leadership. So that died. It's really hard to find leaders. You need to really define stuff for them - what needs to get done how many hours a week - hard to get people to commit long term

FF: How about now?

For the past 6 months I've been chairing Avenues - I've been involved with the board peripherally for several years heading up the spiritual development and faith formation committee - bringing in speakers once a month and attendance wasn't very good - up to half a dozen. We did have a retreat on the Enneagram, and another retreat - those seemed to go well. This March we reorganized the board from play (events) and pray (service, spirituality) committees. Now my intent is to bridge the two with the concept of Christian hospitality so that people see all of Avenues as ministry, as all connected. During First Friday we have people who are greeters and minglers to make sure people are talking and getting to know each other. We hope to develop that even more so that it will be an avenue into the BSM. Now we have 6 subcommittees instead of just 2. First Friday, Restaurant of the Month (20-30 people) and other seasonally dependent - sports and outdoor activities -ex. camping event once a month all year round, lots of sports teams, running club, soccer, broomball, volleyball, softball, an Avenues member volunteers to be the captain and they participate in leagues in the Cities. We have a social/service committee hoping to connect that to Habitat for Humanity - but finding leadership for that is a struggle. Another committee for big events like the boogie boat cruise (100 people last year).

FF: Sounds like you're involved in the programmatic side?

Yes, but I'd rather not be. I'm trying to set up infrastructure so we don't lose the history and the flavor of events every time the board changes. I'm trying to create a more sustainable organization. I'm trying to get the board to think strategically; about how everything is connected rather than just individual events - so I have to be involved on a more detailed level to help with that - I'm trying to get people to keep records. It's hard to find your way around the Basilica if you're new - so we want to help people get a jump on a maneuvering in the system. When it takes too long people get frustrated and it isn't good customer service (to use a term from business), so we need to get a better infrastructure in place. But in the midst of all that it's really working well. New people to the Cities hear about it and call me wanting to get involved. For long time members, this is their life, this is where their deep friendships are.

FF: The classic church structure for mainline is that until you get married and have a kid parishes don't know what to do with them which creates a sense of isolation both individually and corporately. My bias is that the church has lost a lot of energy not having connecting places for these people in parish life.. the BSM is doing that with this 25-40 age group in a not age level ministry way. The church needs some help discovering what's working…

So as it matures what do I see?

FF: What do you see two years from now about how it might grow?

In the past 3-4 years there's been total turn over, start from scratch and build up. The only way to mature is to keep going rather than starting over every time. I'm hoping our spiritual and social activities will become more integrated - that social activities will have a clear purpose to them. Avenues events have not had a clear purpose in the past, partly because it grew so quickly from 50 people expanded because of a charismatic leader, but didn't have a lot of foundation. I'd like to see more integration.

As for the board, I'm hoping to create "traditions." For instance, in March we has a strategic planning retreat. In October, we'll have a volunteer appreciation party to thank the board and any volunteers that hosted events. We are asking board members for a six-month commitment. At the appreciation event, we can honor people who are rotating off the board and welcome new people. By having these "markers" we can keep people from simply disappearing and provide continuity on the board to keep processes alive. These seem like important anchors to recognize the contributions of the board and create a strong direction for the organization.

FF: So the social has more potential paths to conversation around spirituality and service.

We've had conversation about the outer ring of lightweight social activities to bring people in, and then, as they move toward the core, we enter into deeper conversations about faith. We've done a good job bringing people in, but not in deepening the conversation. I've found that kind of dialogue in other places in the BSM, but not in Avenues.

FF: Is there a close connection between avenues and the RCIA?

About ½ of avenues people are BSM members, and regular churchgoers. Some that don't belong to the Basilica but attend mass there.

FF: People are coming in and finding other avenues to get connected in the parish?

I know I went on a bike trip to Ireland and people I didn't see at mass before I saw at mass after -so it did build a bond there.

FF: Reflect on the block party and the role it's played in the area of young adult ministry?

As a parishioner, I think its really helped make the BSM a hip place to be. I've talked to Father Michael a little bit about it - people identify the church with what they've done there. If you were having a conversation with someone it might go, "I go to the BSM," "oh what do you do there?" "I volunteer at the Block Party." "What kind of Avenues things do you do?" "I do restaurant of the month, etc." So, to them that's what the BSM is and what the Block Party is. As a Block Party volunteer you don't have to work very hard - I've done it. However, my perception is that the Block Party committee is tough to get on, you have to audition and understudy someone for a couple years before you can take charge. That's what I want for Avenues. Block Party is hip, really cool - even picking up garbage there is cool. Last year I noticed a high level employee from my corporation was at the Block Party picking up garbage - he was a choir member and the choir got called in to help which goes to show that everybody helps with everything. It generates a lot of internal enthusiasm and outside interest. Plus, there's the drinking beer on the church lawn - it makes the church not such a scary place.

FF: Difficulty in finding volunteers - is that because of the transitory nature of the population?

It's easy to find volunteers, hard to find leaders, get them oriented and what not. I talk to other members in other ministries and say we have this transitory nature because of our age… but I don't think it's that unique. Young parents with young kids, retired folks are all hard to pin down. However, Because of the life tasks in this age group, people do have personal traumas to handle, so in some ways this group is challenging. Also, if you're a single person there are fewer places to interface in the church (generally you're not connected to multiple ministries such as kid's school, etc.) so you can drop out and people might not know.

FF: So providing pastoral care to these folks is hard

And to be flexible to allow people to give what they can give on their terms.

FF: What's the draw for you - why are you involved so deeply with Avenues?

Two things. I took this position as a leadership development opportunity. In my work as an organizational development consultant I'm always the advisor, never the leader. I'm not responsible for outcomes. This was a chance to practice what I preach. Also, I am committed to this organization because I've developed a lot of friendships there, that's what keeps me involved.

FF: [restate.] Then you are changing the organization to preserve history, is there a need for that in the broader organization of the BSM?

Yes, there's tremendous need all over the place, but I'm not sure how to do it. When one relies so much on volunteer help… it's hard to do.

FF: The transitory nature of staffs makes a need to re-create things… so I affirm your observation that there needs to be some historical piece that keeps the memory - so I'm thinking it needs to be broader - some strategic way of mapping out a history would be invaluable.

Yes, it's important to keep things going on the big scale, but also ministry is about the tiniest details. For example, having hosts at First Friday is new in the last year to Avenues - and we hope to incorporate that in all the Avenues events. Greeters have a specific job - it is to welcome people into our space who are hesitant about crossing that threshold. We have to constantly remind the hosts that this is their mission and not have them just sit at the table taking names. We really want this to be about reaching out - a living example of Christian hospitality.

People say that you'll never find enough volunteers - but if you make the job description clear enough people will want to do it. There are people who are out there who are dying to be our First Friday greeters - to be the first ones to get their eyes on the newcomers. We need them in the greeting spot. I get tons of calls from people who want to get involved, but it requires energy to figure out a place to use them. It's exciting!

FF: Genius? Make sure we see… what?

No profound thoughts… the only common thread I see is from my experience and what has kept me in it is that in the BSM mission statement, the word hospitality appears twice and it's the only word that does. The BSM has always made me feel welcome, and other people also say, "no matter what's going on in your life you will always be welcome here." I hear from members and volunteers from many ministries that they have this same experience.

FF: How is that experienced? People? Presence of the place?

All of what I've said and in every person, both volunteers and staff, people create a feeling of so much welcome. For example, there's a special mass for blessing your pets and you can actually bring your pet - this place even welcomes animals. Father Dale, when he was serving at the BSM, he had a pug named Max and he would do mass with Max at the altar, on a leash, of course. The message is consistently, "Come as you are". Bring your pet. Bring everything about you, both the good and the bad. (I didn't see it but I heard they had an elephant once.) :

10. Team Processing - Round 1

Genius factors - Round 1
Greg, Hal, Amy
At Starbucks
7/12/01 - 3:15p

Block Party
It's the signature event. It says we welcome young adults. They (Basilica of St. Mary - BSM) are intentionally going after this group by not putting Lawrence Welk on stage. It's so outside what people imagine churches doing. It attracts the disenfranchised the way that a contemporary Christian music festival can't. BSM said we're going to blow the doors off this. Do we Christianize the culture or take in the culture and bring Christ to meet it? They made a clear choice to play in the culture's playground. The paradox of beer and basilica is attractive to Gen X-ers. Beer - Hootie (and the Blowfish) - and the Basilica in the background - it's a beautiful thing.

Non-niche ministry
For Father Michael to talk first about poverty level in the area, social justice, social ministry is what the block party has grown out of… and he is concerned that staff and parishioners understand that. 7 years ago the BSM was not the place to be - it's been a huge cultural shift. Young adult ministry seemed secondary - more like a way to address the areas father Michael mentioned first. He needed to build the parish and raise money so he read the context and worked it.

Young adult ministry hasn't evolved. It happened. Block Party came about because of the location and the need to make some serious $ and young adults are the group that has the most disposable income. The BSM welcomed young adults and they came and stayed.

In 1995 with Block Party kicking off they had enough people from First Friday to volunteer and move Avenues to a new place as far as involvement. The image of the BSM was changed by that first event and the new image has been reinforced every summer since. The BSM incorporated the young adults when they came as a result of the Block Party by welcoming them.

For the first one the archbishop called and said, "Tell me this is going to be ok." Now it's a normal event - an essential to the image and work of the BSM.

It seems like it wasn't a strategy. It happened. God happened and this young adult ministry showed up. :

Father Michael's story about standing on top of the crane looking around… his direction was the opposite of where we thought he would go.
Not "look we're surrounded by young adults"
Not "look we could be chaplains to all these students at all these schools"
Instead - "look at all the adult learning opportunities available for people in poverty!"

Doing the Basics well
Liturgy, service, hospitality. No latest fad. No purpose driven church. BSM is the opposite of churches we've encountered doing exemplar youth and family ministry visits.
Facility - the BSM has an experiential advantage here. The average church can't offer that space, that caliber.

In general RCC can do things we can't because of the depth of their tradition. They can say, "We've been doing contemporary for 30 years and now we have good stuff." Lutherans can't say that.

New word - be eclectic, be true to your context, be about the basics and do them with authenticity. The way the BSM has gone deeper into their own identity as a catholic basilica has an intrinsic appeal to young adults.

Desperation ' Innovation ' Exponential Growth
BSM capitalized on a moment of desperation. The move from the first block party to the second is huge. "We had the church locked (at the first one), the next one we opened it, now we offer tours…" What is their definition of evangelism? Get them in the building and let the mystery of God do the rest.

God is up to something here - this is God's world and we need to seek the well-being of it. In liturgy you are in the presence of God - God is in the space. So get 'em in and God will encounter them there. It definitely is about physical symbols, physical presence… it's a God thing. That dovetails into the hospitality without commitment we heard about with regard to weddings. We welcome; God does the rest.

Language
Linguistic ducking (well, according to us). They wouldn't say, "This is God's work." They wouldn't be so bold to say what God's up to. Bring them in and God will be up to something, but only God knows what.

Permission-giving culture
Flat organizational structure. Rootedness in service to the poor, hospitality to the stranger. Deep sense of spirituality.

Would be interesting to think about what congregations looked like during different eras in history - Depression, WW2, boomer churches, now, how to predict what's next - there's clearly no going back!

Keys to exemplar ministry?
Quality worship - whatever that means
Social Justice/ Service - living out the gospel
Integrate - spirituality and daily life

11. Worship Observations

Basilica worship notes
Amy GF
8/12/01

9:30 Traditional service
We (Amy and Todd) arrived at 9:30 but didn't get into the sanctuary until well after that - parking was exciting. They have their own security people who help with it!

People continued to arrive steadily in the worship space until 9:50.

Demographics:
¢ Approx 900 people attending
¢ Mix of ages and colors
¢ Primarily white people under 40 years old
¢ Lots of singles, young couples, single parents with kids

Leadership:
¢ Ushers were mostly older gentlemen, with two older women and one man age 30-40.
¢ Kids (18 and under) in the procession/recession served as crucifer (carrying the cross), thurifer (carrying incense), and scripture bearer. Others included the priest, the assisting minister (20-30 yr old man), and lector (late 30s early 40s woman).
¢ Communion assistants were all ages, sizes, both genders, still primarily white. The youngest person looked about 10 years old.
¢ Cantor was a middle-aged man
¢ Organist was a middle aged woman.

Sermon:
¢ Given from the top level of the nave (not from the pulpit, but still raised from the floor level of the pews)
¢ Rev. Joseph Gillespie, the Basilica Vicar, preached using no notes
¢ Talked about "belief systems" and referred to Kelci Stringer's recent interview about the tragic death of her husband Korey (a MN Vikings player who died of heat stroke at pre-season practice the week before) with NBC's Katie Couric. I.e. - he used current events to bridge to the gospel text.
¢ Spoke of faith as the treasure we build up in our hearts - it's not about money, it's about having a faith that God is with you that will hold you up in times of testing
¢ Named particular times of testing - depression, divorce, loneliness.
¢ Brought the gospel and other readings into the sermon several times

Worship service:
¢ No hymnals to be found anywhere
¢ All hymns and liturgy sung by the congregation were printed in the bulletin and led well by the cantor.
¢ Prayers and lessons also printed in the bulletin but not word for word.
¢ No invitation to or exclusion from communion either verbally by the priest or printed in the bulletin.
¢ Prayers were for the middle east, northern Ireland, and other war torn countries, the city of Minneapolis/St. Paul, leaders in the church, the basilica community. Comprehensive and well written.
¢ Gospel procession, plus full procession and recession at beginning and end of service.

Between services
¢ Social hour in the fellowship hall (downstairs in the undercroft)
¢ About 20 people standing around or sitting at tables. Most visiting with each other
¢ Priest who led 9:30 service was there by the door visiting with people
¢ Large information booth (with someone there to give info), and sign up stations for upcoming Basilica events

Karen at the information booth:
¢ Member 17 years
¢ Joined at age 23 when there were only 400 envelopes (family units) and liked it! :
¢ Grew up Catholic
¢ Came to the basilica because she was looking for "a place to come home to every weekend"
¢ Is a member of a Catholic congregation in Mendota Heights, but lives 2 miles from BSM, so she attends there
¢ Has been involved with the Basilica Block Party since it began - 1st as the financial person, now coordinates the VIP section.
¢ Got married 5 years ago at the Basilica, her husband is also Catholic but only attends every 2-3 months

11:00 Contemporary Service
Demographics:
¢ ¾ full
¢ 4/5 young adults, 1/5 gray hairs
¢ behind me 2 single women, beside me a single woman, in front of me 2 single women; around me farther out were several single parents and kids, and groups like grandma/grandchild, or mom/grandma/grandchild, plus lots of couples in their 20s-50s with no kids.

Leadership:
¢ Father Michael O'Connell (BSM Rector) and one assistant (looked like the same man from the first service) were vested. Others in the processional (lector - middle aged woman, scripture bearer - a younger woman, and crucifer - teenage girl) wore black.
¢ Band led music - all were in their 20s-30s. Woman vocalist, man vocalist/acoustic guitar, man euphonium/vocalist, and another woman on piano/vocals (she introduced herself as the minister of music at the beginning of the service).
¢ Communion assistants mostly came up from the congregation and were a wide variety of ages and genders.

Sermon:
¢ Given from the center in front of altar by Father Michael, who used notes
¢ Spoke about faith, how God's love and care come through the love and care of the community
¢ Addressed the genesis text where Abraham is asked to sacrifice Isaac, talked about the faith that fills the time when you think your child is lost to you
¢ He used the family two pews in front of me - a drunk driver had hit the mom and kids and the 3 yr old son was thrown out of the car and suffered head trauma. He was pronounced dead at the scene, but was revived on the way to the hospital and is now home after 100 days. God gave them the gift of faith to get through that terrible time, and now gives them hope for each day.
¢ The family was obviously touched, and so was Father Michael
¢ At the end of the service, as part of dismissal, Father Michael urged those who have a problem with alcohol, drugs, anger that turns to rage to please get help - "We want to protect our kids!"

Worship service:
¢ Same as 9:30 with these exceptions/additions:
¢ Used alternate psalm that was printed in the bulletin for this service.
¢ Band taught the congregation a new hymn before the service by singing through the chorus and verses a piece at a time and having the congregation sing it back.
¢ Band led all music from the front
¢ Sharing the peace - Father Michael invited all to greet someone they didn't know and introduce themselves, and several people around me did just that!

6:15 Contemporary Service
¢ Service was pretty much the same as 11:00 (same band, same songs, same prayers and Bible texts), but Father Joseph preached and the other assistants were different people.
¢ Sanctuary was again mostly full, with about the same demographics.
¢ Half as many communion servers as previous two services
¢ More stereo-typically Catholic than the first two services. There was a lot more dialogue between priest and congregation that life long Catholics know by heart - none of which was printed in the bulletin.
¢ Same bulletin from a.m. services.

General comments (hospitality stuff, mostly)
¢ Both priests made a point of inviting people to fellowship after the service
¢ Tours of the BSM were offered after the morning services
¢ People felt comfortable staying after the service to pray in the pews, or move to one of the side altars to pray and/or light a candle
¢ Greeters are at the back in all services handing out bulletins, but people come in through all the different doors.
¢ Security force eased my fears about leaving my car parked under the freeway during worship. Also, nice to have their help with the traffic jam after the services.
¢ People came in all styles of dress - shorts and sandals, jeans, suits, dresses, skirts - there seemed to be no dress code. Everyone I saw was clean, so maybe that's the only rule. :

12. Reflections on Worship

Hal, Greg and Amy process their worship reflections together
9/01
Luther Seminary Cafeteria
Amy took notes

Unremarkable - no bells and whistles. Simple liturgy done well.

Very respectful - processing with the scriptures, gospel procession, the ways the readings were done - going to the altar then to the pulpit, holding up the scriptures during the alleluia. Pretty typically catholic (to us) but also done with sincerity, like those participating understood what they were doing was important.

Remarkably Roman Catholic in its tradition, didn't try to be something it wasn't. Like a lot of Lutheran services try to be something they're not. They stayed very true to their surrounding.

No music before the service, they let the building do its work. People can talk to each other and it's not disturbing - it doesn't take over the space. The building encourages silence. 10-15 minutes before the services there were people praying and it was silent.

G - Entering the building you have to go through two sets of imposing doors to even get to the ushers - I wasn't overwhelmed by hospitality.
H- that's a different understanding of hospitality between traditions. It's worship preparation time - not first contact time. Human interaction is out of place here. After the service there's more levity, but not before.

No rush. Everything about the service seemed to have plenty of time, there was room for space. The reader took her time going up to do what she needed to do. Very reverent. No feeling of rush.

Culturally and age mixed, a few families with young children. Ritual expressions of piety from all ages - older people, teens, young adults (i.e. genuflecting before getting in the pew).

Diversity of people Father Michael characterized as not fitting into other parishes. Anonymity - these are people you aren't going to run into on your neighborhood street. You can hide there - disappear into the space. But at the same time as a single person attending by yourself you don't feel out of place - around you, you can see other people who came by themselves. Similar to block party - big group feeling, without connection.

How is what they are doing now as worship different from 10 years ago? There's appreciation of the contribution of the cantor at the service Greg attended (the people applauded him at the end of the service).

Preaching not that great, but the priests are emotionally invested in their context, in their people, in the gospel. Interesting contrast to what we usually expect from Lutheran preachers. Very deep emotional connection to their subject matter.

Father Joseph in his sermon referring to Kelci Stringer "Their faith tradition - although different from ours, they believe just as much as we do." An intentional embrace of other faith traditions.

Passion
Seeking to live the gospel authentically
Needs responsive
What needs are there in our community and surroundings, seeking to meet them
Quality
What they do as church they seek to do well
Savvy, adventuresome context reading (God and culture)
What is God up to? Let's follow that.
What's our context, what does that mean?
we have all these young adults, and all these single mothers
Risk taking
It's amazing that they have a block party. It's amazing they haven't been sued.
It would have been easy to say, "We're not going to do that again"

13. Interview with Johan vanParys

Interview with Johan vanParys
Basilica of St. Mary (Minneapolis),
6 November from 10.30 am.
Amy led, Greg scribed

FF: Basically, we have three questions today. The first question is about you personally, how you got involved in the Basilica, and a little bit of your life story and how the story of the Basilica and yours intersected with each other, and what it is you do here and how you are part of what happens here. The second question is about the value of the ministry that the Basilica is doing, primarily with young adults because that's our focus here, and how that works out in the community here surrounding and the broader community of the Twin Cities. And then the big question for us is what is the genius behind what happens here. Do you want to start by just telling a little about yourself?

Sure. I was born in Belgium. I am part of a very Catholic family. At this moment however I am the only one still practicing. They are not part of the church except for baptism, marriage. Life cycle Christians. I was very much involved with the church most of my life. As a teenager my brother and I went to all sorts of youth rallies, hurrah for Jesus things, jazz masses and that sort of thing. Which now I look at and think 'how could I ever do that?' But we did and it gave us life I suppose. I went to Seminary and my brother went to a state university, and we took different paths. He completely removed himself from the Catholic Church, whereas it drove me closer into the Catholic Church. I spent two years in Seminary and then left Seminary and spent five years in a Benedictine abbey while going to the Catholic university of Louvain in Belgium and studying archaeology and art history. I finished that and I was very much interested in the Middle Ages, and thought the Middle Ages, religion and art are so intertwined in western Europe that I wanted to learn more about the religion behind the arts, the archaeology. Now I wanted religion so I started studying comparative religious studies with emphasis on the Middle Ages. My dissertation topic for art history was 15th century _______ missal which brought me to the intersection of liturgy and art. Those have become my two mains areas of interest, and where I feel very comfortable. I feel quite informed in those areas and in the intersection of those two areas. After I finished my degrees in Louvain I decided I wasn't quite done yet so I would go and really pursue liturgy and I went to the University of Notre Dame in Indiana. That's where I got my doctorate in theology with a concentration in liturgy. My dissertation was on new trends in baptismal architecture, again trying to look at anthropology, sociology of water and how that works with theology and architecture and art. When I finished my course work I started to work for the Center for Liturgy at Notre Dame, and got sent out throughout the country to do workshops and consultations with parishes and dioceses, particularly concentrating on art and religion. My position there was associate director for art and architecture for worship. When there were job cuts coming around, of course the position that pertains to art is one of the first ones to go, so mine was cut. Somehow at the very same time I got a phone call from this place asking if I'd be interested in applying for a job and head over here. I and thought 'no', because I intended to spend my life in academic work. I'd never done anything except academic work and I didn't think it would be a good fit for the Basilica and myself. But I had two friends here who said 'you know, just humor us, just come here'. So I came here for an interview and I was very much impressed by the place, and I thought, well, maybe God is calling me to do this. So I did apply and I was offered the position and then accepted it. That was six years ago.

FF: It sounds like your gifts and what the Basilica wanted from you have been a good match. Has that proved to be true?

Yes, it has. I'm much better at pastoral work than I ever thought I would be and the parish is much more of an academically inspiring place than I thought it might be. Our congregation is highly educated and expects well thought out speech and activities. So that works well. Plus I continue to lecture with seminaries and for dioceses. I do consultations still as well around the country so I've kept that aspect going too. My ideal position would be where I can teach on a regular basis at a Seminary and keep my foot in parish work as well. But for now this is great.

FF: From talking to people, liturgy is a big part of what happens here at the Basilica. We went to worship and just from talking to people who are doing programmatic stuff - like George doing RCIA and Janel and Father Michael - all have said that liturgy is the center of what happens here. How does that work for you, how does that play out?

The Second Vatican Council, one of the documents, Sacro Sanctum ________ was the first document promulgated by the Council, which was a document on the liturgy. Paragraph 10 or 11 speaks about celebration of Eucharist and to paraphrase it, the celebration of the Eucharist is the source and summit of everything the Christian community does. And I think that's not just a fleeting statement, I think it's one of the most essential statements in that whole document, because it speaks of the Eucharist as the heart, where everything begins and where everything ends. I really believe that and I think we have been able to cause the parish and the staff to embrace that. Over the course of the years that I have been here we have seen how in our faith formation we have moved from catechesis to lectionary-based catechesis to liturgy-based catechesis. We have moved to the liturgy being the central part. If you look at our mission statement the first point speaks of how we are committed to quality liturgy, faith formation and pastoral care. But liturgy is the first. And we also commit quite a bit of our resources - be that personnel, financial resources, volunteer resources - to the liturgy.

FF: How do you see liturgy impacting other things like pastoral care and faith formation? It seems to me there's a connection there. Can you flesh that out a little bit?

I'm often asked 'what is good liturgy?' And at first one would be tempted to say good liturgy is when you have a good presider who gives a good sermon, when you have a good choir with great music, when you have vestments that are top quality, when you have an environment that is great, when the church is beautiful, when the bells ring before and after. You know, all these criteria. And all of them are very important of course, but I think good liturgy happens when this happens. A couple of years ago WCCO came and did something like what you're doing right now. I think maybe you should watch that video because they were very enamored with why should all these young people flock to the Basilica. So they came and I talked at great length with the people who were producing the program. Ultimately I was not really satisfied with their answer. There was no answer really, except for maybe that everybody who comes here recognizes themselves, at least in part, in somebody else. So they really emphasized the diversity of this community. That no one really ought to feel as a stranger because there's always somebody who partially looks like them, who partially sounds like them, who partially walks like them, dresses like them. A couple of years later Mother Teresa died. I was still searching for why, you know, what is good liturgy, why do people come here? The television stations did stories on Mother Teresa, and one of the stations went to the people who live under the bridge, our neighbors, and asked them 'Who to you is Mother Teresa?' They said Janice Anderson, who is our director of social outreach and the Basilica of Saint Mary. Good liturgy happens when it's not inward navel-gazing activity. Good liturgy happens when it is outward and sends people into world to be Christ to the world. Last night I did a talk on celebration of the Eucharist. Catholics are so tempted to give great respect to Christ present in the Eucharist. In the Word proclaimed, in the people gathered, the presider, but above all in the sacred bread and wine, the blessed Sacrament. And I told them this story, that one year it was the feast of Corpus Christi, where we above all celebrate the body and blood of Christ, and we had no priest here, so we couldn't really do a Mass, which is quite wrong. But it gave me the occasion to do what I had always wanted to do, which was get into the pulpit and yell out 'You are the body of Christ'. So the presentation last night about the celebration of the Eucharist really became a talk about how we are called to be Eucharist to the world, to be the body of Christ to the world for the salvation of the world.

FF: So faith formation is a part of that, learning to understand that?

Yes. I believe that liturgy is this. I have two operative actions. The first action is that every time we worship we get a glimpse of the heavenly worship. Every time we sit at the table of the Lord we get a glimpse of what the table of the Lord will be in heaven. 'On this holy mountain the Lord will provide a banquet of rich food and of choice wine' - from the book of wisdom, from Isaiah. That vision really inspires me to really look at liturgy as a foreshadowing of the heavenly. So every time we are touched by worship we get a glimpse. The second axiom is that obviously this heavenly Jerusalem has not completely arrived yet. In the liturgy we are formed, rehearsed I think is a good word, in patterns of behavior and thought patterns which make us more like Christ every time, Sunday after Sunday after Sunday. And this will help to hasten the coming of the end times, the conclusion of the promise. I look at the liturgy as the hands of a potter, and we are the clay. Sunday after Sunday we are molded into the image of Christ, into the body of Christ, so that we can be Christ to the world. So, what we are trying to do in the liturgy is then lived out in the world and talked about in our faith formation. There are two pillars to parish life - there is the spiritual pillar and the temporal. Obviously we need to be concerned about being able to pay the bills, that sort of thing. Then the spiritual pillar, which is the one I am more familiar with. And that spiritual pillar has three aspects - I call it the spiritual triangle. It consists of worship, of education, and of Christian life. We worship in order to be molded into who we need to be. We are educated in order to understand who we need to be. And the Christian life is being sent into the world in order to be who we need to be. So those three pillars work together constantly but I think the driving force and the heart of it all is worship. I think one of the successes of this place … when we have new member dinners we ask them 'Why have you become a member?' And we keep growing, and here now we are 5200 households. We thought we would level off at 5000 but we keep growing. They say, and I'm sort of generalizing, but they say three things. First of all they are attracted by the building, because it looks like a church. The second is, once we are in the building we are just enamored by worship and we keep coming back, because it's not just worship for worship's sake, but because it calls us and causes us to make a difference in the world. Now, with regard to this building, to some it is just an architectural piece, but I am a consultant to a parish in Wisconsin and they are trying to figure out whether they should build a new church. They had basically decided yes, until September 11 came around and we have had to and are rethinking what we need to do. But I told them the story a couple of weeks ago of this church. Archbishop Ireland in the early parts of century decided he was going to build two churches - one in St. Paul to seat 3000, and then one in Minneapolis as well. It's uncertain why he wanted to build this church, but gossiping tongues say that St. Paul was already a bastion of Catholicism whereas Minneapolis was rather a bastion of Lutheranism. Those gossiping tongues say that maybe he thought that if he built a monument to Catholicism in Minneapolis that Catholicism would grow there. Whether that's the case or not, I think what he did build was a beacon of faith, of hope, and of light in the landscape of Minneapolis. That became so clear on September 11. That day I was in the church doing my usual things and my cell phone rang, I had forgotten to turn if off. It was my father calling from Belgium and he said 'Have you been watching the news?' I said 'No, I'm in the church'. And he said you'd better go and turn on CNN and watch what's going on. So I did. And as I stood there amazed with my colleagues, the telephone started to ring. Hundreds of calls. There were some people we could recognize as parishioners but many weren't. By 10.30 am we had decided we had to have a prayer service. It was on news by 11 o'clock and we did do a prayer service. As I walked into the church, it was an inter-faith service, I recognized people from the back. There were many backs I did not recognize. There were people wearing the yamakah __________, there were people there who were wearing the traditional Muslim dress, there were some Tibetan monks in their saffron robes. This place has become a beacon not for Catholicism but it has become a beacon of faith, hope, love, peace, justice; where people can come whatever state they're in. That became very clear on that dramatic day, but I think it's the case every day to a lesser extent. Why people come here, why young people come here, is probably for those reasons. Because this is a beacon of something else. It's a beacon that goes beyond one denominational structure. Although of course obviously we are a Roman Catholic cathedral church. Rather than limiting us I think it opens us up to many more possibilities.

FF: It seems that in liturgy and in what you do are unashamedly Roman Catholic. Do you think that, in its own way, has an intrinsic appeal to young adults?

For one thing, I think good ecumenism relies, is built upon honesty about one's own identity. Not only this, but honesty. I think often we are tempted to be self-effacing and almost apologetic about who we are in our faith tradition, thinking that that will allow us to be, but we get to a common denominator which ends up being nothing. I think it's wonderful to be unashamedly Catholic. However, at the same time, we embrace those who are unashamedly Lutheran or unashamedly Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist, and welcoming them with open arms and treating them as equals. One of our mottos is that we are traditional church with a modern message, and I think that is very appealing to young people as well. Because at the same time I think young people and people in general are attracted to something traditional. We don't, at this point in time, need novelties. In the '60s the Roman Catholic Church had this hunger for new things, which was what we needed at the time. But luckily we have passed that now and are happy with traditional things, things that stabilize us, but not a tradition that stifles us. Rather, a tradition which gives us a basis on which to think anew, broader, wider. What I also wanted to say about that, about this building, is that after the liturgy was over on September 11, some of the television stations asked questions about why do you think people come here. I have this image about how this building is two things at once - it is a strong building, and gives people feeling of strength. A mighty fortress is our God, an architectural form of it. But then once you are inside there are the warm embraces of the liturgy, of the candlelight, of the soft lines of the building. So it's both strong and welcoming and embracing. And I think, not only is that the case with the building, but it is the case with what we are trying to be as a community as well. Offer strength. Our pastor was in New York when all of this happened, and so we were having a meeting with the senior staff. People were saying 'What do we do?' Well, we do what we do best. We get out our prayer books and we pray, we educate people and we offer people strength in this time of need.

FF: I noticed when I came to worship that there were a lot of people assisting, your communion assistants were many and of varying ages. The same for readers or lectors. Father Michael said he would never have guessed that he'd have a 6th grade kid reading out of the lectern but he did and it was good. How do you work that with the volunteers?

The theological backbone to this is that the primary celebrant of worship is the assembly in its varied ways or incarnations - meaning it's children, young people, young adults, people who are aged, it's people who have lots of money, people who have no money, it's women, it's men, people who hear and people who don't hear, it's people who can walk and people who cannot walk. It's the entire body of Christ, which celebrates the liturgy. When people come here and they recognize themselves at least in one other person they also have to recognize themselves at least in one of the ministers. Secondly, I would say … there was a period of time in our church where we believed that we needed to have youth masses and we needed to have children's masses and every sub- group of our community. Rather than uniting, it's divisive. And Eucharist being the ultimate sacrament of unity should not be divisive, but rather unity. So we refuse to have a youth mass or a mass for gays and lesbians or a mass for newly married couples - we just don't. Every mass is for everybody at all times. But if we say that, then we also have to make sure that the ministers come from all of these groups. It is much easier to say I will have 10 lectors and train them well and that's it. And you never have to worry about it. If you have 60-100 lectors … you know, every weekend we have about 400 liturgical volunteer ministers. So we try to allow the entire assembly to really make the liturgy work. One time I remember sitting - we had just prepared the church for Easter Vigil, and about 100 people had come to help us - sitting there I remember being so moved by this, that the only thing I have to do is just sit back and let people do their thing. It's absolutely wonderful. The success of this place really relies upon all of these volunteers, we have thousands of volunteers here without whom we could not do what we are doing. And clearly when people become members of this community it's not just a matter of fulfilling a Sunday obligation, it goes much beyond that. People get involved.

FF: You were talking about how you when first came there was catechesis, and then it became lectionary-based and now it is liturgy-based. How did that movement happen?

I think the movement happened as all of us started to embrace more and more the reality that worship is the source and summit of what we do, who we are and who we hope to be. And as that embracing happened, in terms of education we realized education needs to be about Catholic dogmas but that should not be the driving force. The first step for us - maybe the driving force should be the lectionary, the Word of God as it is given to us every Sunday. And that is already quite worship-connected. The next step was, it is lectionary-based but not just lectionary-based, it is lectionary-based within the context of the entire liturgical year. So it has become liturgy-based. So that on a Sunday of Advent we talk about Scriptures on that day, but we also talk about the ethos of the liturgical season. What is it we do during Advent? Lent, what are the three great Lenten exercises - fasting praying and almsgiving. What do the readings say about this? What does this mean for me during the week? One might then need to look at specifically Catholic teachings on justice, have a teaching on justice for instance. Or at the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. What is it easier to do? To sit around a table with young people and try to explain to the dogma of the immaculate conception. Is it not easier to celebrate the mystery of the immaculate conception and then from there say, well, what might this mean? What does church say about this? Is there anything in Scripture? What do the apocryphal books say? So it's really turning the whole system upside-down.

FF: I would guess that creates a deeper understanding and desire for worship.

Yes. The three corners of this triangle - worship, education and life - really need to continuously influence and feed one another. So that in the liturgies, the celebrations of worship, we think of the educational aspects and the ultimate life that it needs to reach, so that it leading it does not become pretty turns around the altar. The other thing also that this integrating has caused is for the entire parish to move through the liturgical seasons and to move through the liturgical life of church. Whereas it is somewhat of a joke but at the same time somewhat of a reality that often you have liturgists on one side and you have catechists on the other side, and never are the two to meet. Whereas here we have come to a point, I think, where really there is an integration between education and celebration.

FF: What do you think caused this shift as a staff in embracing liturgy as the center, the heart of what you are doing? How do you think that happened, what caused that shift?

When I came here this church had had a tradition of celebrating the liturgy well for a while. My predecessor was very much committed to making that so. I stepped right into the rich fertile ground, so that made it much easier. Celebrating the liturgy has made the change. It's not something one can say, "from henceforth the liturgy will be at the heart." You have to do it well in order for that to happen. This community does the liturgy as worship very well. Very, very well. Of course, one can always work to do it better and one does, but in this imperfect world. And I think people are changed and by celebrating people do realize that liturgy is the source and summit of everything. This line, source and summit, in different translations, is on the lips of many of our people, both staff and non-staff. They know it and can joke about it because they know it. My deep belief is that worship changes people slowly but it does change them. And that does not only happen in the head but it happens in the heart. Worship depends upon the totality of the person to work. Worship uses all of the human senses to do its work. Sometimes we get complaints about incense. But incense is part of liturgy and is part of how liturgy does its work. It smells like Mass. Just for example, it may have happened to you that you walk by a counter at Daytons or Marshall Fields and these people are rushing out to spray perfume on you. Well it has happened to me that this ?-thing happened to be the cologne that a friend of mine in Belgium has been wearing for many years. And when I smell this I immediately am reminded of her and the conversations we've had and I have visions of us sitting together at the little coffee shop in Brussels. For that fact incense is very important. It smells like worship, or it smells like Easter, or it smells like Christmas. The repetition of that gives us imagery with which to interpret daily life and which helps us cope with daily life. The repetition of the psalms for instance. The monks in the Middle Ages recited the psalms over and over again. That gave them vocabulary with which to interpret the world, so that when they found themselves in an unhappy situation, rather than cursing, a psalm erupted in mind. I don't have a moment in time, but I do believe that the liturgy does it work. I always say liturgy, worship is never ecclesiologically innocent. It means something. It either means something bad and it rehearses people in something bad, or it rehearses them in something good.

FF: When we talked with George (Barrett) he said that Catholics don't necessarily talk this way, but how would you say that God has been at work in that process?

God is essentially at work in this process. Presumably everything we do is hopefully inspired. I think that what George means to say is this: that Catholics are hesitant to speak in personal terms. Catholics are resistant to saying Jesus is my personal savior because we essentially believe in corporate salvation, that as body of Christ we are saved. So our liturgy is corporate worship. It is not me and my Jesus praying. Our spirituality is corporate spirituality. Our belief in inspiredness, in being inspired by the Spirit, is a corporate belief, as a community we are inspired. That's why it is a wonderful comfort that at times I may not be inspired., but thankfully the rest of my community is inspired so that as a community we keep going in the right direction. Is God involved in this? Well, I hope so. I surely pray for that.

FF: What I have heard you say throughout is liturgy is at the heart and that happened gradually ..

It has always been at the heart, we just haven't always known it.

FF: And now that you know it, things have realigned in the parish to flesh that out. In the light of that, and in my mind the ridiculous number of young adults that come to this place for worship, do you see those things related to each other?

I think there are a number of things. First of all, this motto, traditional church and a modern message. I think if you're going to go to church you may as well go to a church that looks like a church. Our unashamedly being Catholic and yet being respectful and welcoming of those who are not. Our embracing of diversity. No matter who you are you are welcome here, we have a totally open door policy. That does not mean that we do not tell everybody that these are the official teachings of the Catholic Church. You are welcome here. But remember, these are the teachings, and if you really want to belong here, you need to consider these. Ultimately we will not say 'if you don't consider them you are not a member', because ultimately we believe that a person's individual conscience goes above any church authority, which is essential Roman Catholic teaching. I think also the fact that our church is not just about prayers and ritual turns but that it leads to something else, that we are concerned with God's little ones. We worship in order to know and in order to change.

FF: Of all the things that we have talked about, are there things that are the genius of this that we haven't discussed, or that you want to highlight?

I believe that the commitment or, acceptance, embracing of the thought that worship is the summit is the motor of this whole deal. Then of course we do have a Block Party that attracts people. I think that helps us in communicating our motto, traditional church with a modern message. What cathedral church would allow for that sort of music to be played on its campus? I may agree or disagree with serving beer and wine and having rock music - I'm not a fan of rock music - but I cannot disagree with the fact that it does breaks barriers. It's a first step for people in reconnecting with the church. That's a good result of the Block Party.

FF: You get a chance to demonstrate hospitality. In attending the Party, we were struck by being welcomed into the Basilica building with a tour. People were really friendly and my impression was that you can't walk into that place and not encounter God there. (Tape stopped. Pause for thank yous, etc. Then Johan had one more thing to say. Start tape.)

We make use of the media unashamedly. Some think that is wrong, that you shouldn't do that, but St. Paul did it. Why should we not do it? Just different media. We really try to keep a profile in the news and, as a matter of fact, when anything happens, either in the Catholic Church or in the world, this is a place where they come, to ask for opinions, to film, whatever.

Quotables:
"Good liturgy happens when it is outward and sends people into world to be Christ to the world."
"…we are called to be Eucharist to the world, to be the body of Christ to the world for the salvation of the world."
"Catholics are hesitant to speak in personal terms. Catholics are resistant to saying Jesus is my personal savior because we essentially believe in corporate salvation, that as body of Christ we are saved. So our liturgy is corporate worship. It is not me and my Jesus praying. Our spirituality is corporate spirituality. Our belief in inspiredness, in being inspired by the Spirit, is a corporate belief, as a community we are inspired. That's why it is a wonderful comfort that at times I may not be inspired, but thankfully the rest of my community is inspired so that as a community we keep going in the right direction. Is God involved in this? Well, I hope so. I surely pray for that."